DNL

C

coach hale

New Member
I spent all day yesterday looking through my notes and found a great deal of info concerning de novo ligpogenesis and alpha glycerol phosphate.

Below I have provided a brief summary of what I found

DNL is elevated in liver in insulin-resistant states

One study showed that constant elevation of DNL was observed in subjects fed a high carb (simple) diet for 25 days . This indicates sustained levels of enzymes involved with hepatic DNL


Another study - obese women convert carb faster to fat than lean women. In lean subjects overfeeding of both sucrose and glucose produced 2-3 fold in dnl whereas in obese subjects doubling of rate of lipogenesis only occurred with sucrose, and no change was observed with glucose. With balanced diet dnl was nearly twice the rate in the obese than in lean subjects regardless of carbohydrate

Another study Only when carb intake exceeds total energy expend does dnl in liver or adipose tissue contribute significantly to whole body energy economy. It is concluded that even when dietary carb is added the pathway of lipogenesis is not the bodies first inclination. Under most dietary conditions the 2 major macronutrient energy sources or not interconvertible currencies

Another study indicated nutritionally depleted patients were susceptible to dnl with high carb intake (although this was intravenous). Not normal dietary conditions.

A glycogenic effect of insulin is to increase cellular uptake of glucose into adipose tissue by increasing expression of glucose receptors. Glucose taken up by adipose is used to form alpha glycerol phosphate.

Thank you
Coach Hale
www.maxcondition.com
 
ah yes! I remember this article as well! If i'm not mistaken, there was a photo of a few big laides doing synchronized swimming! lol. at least thats the photo that was in the article i read

When you really look at the mechanism of DNL, it is so conducive to survival you should almost be proud your biochemistry is like that. Insulin resistance became a coveted thing for the surviving caveman. Why just eat some carbs, and get energy for a little bit and then be hungry again? It would make more since, survival wise, to start putting those carbs towards lipogenesis. You're getting alot more bang for your buck if the carbs go towards fat production rather then metabolizing them on the spot. Fat lasts...

If you think you get fat easily (I'm assuming you do or you wouldnt be researching it) dont feel bad. Sure youll have some extra fat tissue, but what a lot of people forget is that these raised insulin levels are a raise in an ANABOLIC HORMONE! Yes! Insulin is an anabolic hormone! So if you can put on fat easily, that is why its so dang easy to put on muscle too. Youve got an excess of this hormone thatll not only bring glucose to your muscles, itll also speed up protein synthesis! It's almost a privelage in my opinion.

Use DNL to your advantage to get big. OR, you can do low carb in hopes that you cut off that pathway (carb to lipogenesis pathway). I tried it, but when i was doing low carb, the most i was capable of was laying in a hammock and listening to alice in chains. lol

-Kyle
 
lol baby a. maybe i have trouble putting what i know into words, and i come across like im not learned. trust me though, i read all about exactly what this guy was reading about. the studies were finding that in some people, ingesting carbohydrates was leading to an extremely exaggerated insulin response and that a good portion of the carbs were going towards lipogenesis more so then metabolizing them. Youve seen these people. They are enormous no matter what. Even if they barley eat, they are still enormous.

My friend john had blood work done and they told him that after the glucose test, his insulin levels were 10x more than a normal persons. Hes even complained of headaches and crashes after eating a little rice. He is, of course, morbidly obese from his condition as well. Even when he eats low carb he cant shake the weight for the life of him.

And if you are a person who is like this, like i said, you can use it to your advantage to get humungous muscles, because of your exaggerated insulin response, you can take advantage of the anabolic hormone. Or you can cut out carbs, hopefully eliminating the DNL pathway.

baby a, you might be a biochemist though and hate me for what i type. lol. i dont know though, im just trying to help and i didnt spend 2 years reading about metabolism to not give feedback. just go easy on me. im so inspired by HST that i want to help promote this forum

-kyle
 
what is normal

from my findings over consumption of processed carbs is normal

I think dnl is relevant for most of america

as far as athletes go that is a different situation

coach hale
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (kyleman1 @ Aug. 09 2005,8:38)]ah yes! I remember this article as well! If i'm not mistaken, there was a photo of a few big laides doing synchronized swimming! lol. at least thats the photo that was in the article i read
When you really look at the mechanism of DNL, it is so conducive to survival you should almost be proud your biochemistry is like that. Insulin resistance became a coveted thing for the surviving caveman. Why just eat some carbs, and get energy for a little bit and then be hungry again? It would make more since, survival wise, to start putting those carbs towards lipogenesis. You're getting alot more bang for your buck if the carbs go towards fat production rather then metabolizing them on the spot. Fat lasts...
If you think you get fat easily (I'm assuming you do or you wouldnt be researching it) dont feel bad. Sure youll have some extra fat tissue, but what a lot of people forget is that these raised insulin levels are a raise in an ANABOLIC HORMONE! Yes! Insulin is an anabolic hormone! So if you can put on fat easily, that is why its so dang easy to put on muscle too. Youve got an excess of this hormone thatll not only bring glucose to your muscles, itll also speed up protein synthesis! It's almost a privelage in my opinion.
Use DNL to your advantage to get big. OR, you can do low carb in hopes that you cut off that pathway (carb to lipogenesis pathway). I tried it, but when i was doing low carb, the most i was capable of was laying in a hammock and listening to alice in chains. lol
-Kyle
Click to expand...
good lord. so through DNL, X amount of calories in the form of carbs magically become a greater value of calories in stored body fat? Right. PS we aren't cavemen, enough with that analogy.

The stuff about insulin (AN ANABOLIC HORMONE!!!!) is just horrifying. :confused:
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (coach hale @ Aug. 12 2005,2:42)]what is normal
from my findings over consumption of processed carbs is normal
Click to expand...
gee
excess of calories
how novel
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I think dnl is relevant for most of america
Click to expand...
You understand that the body does not need to create new fat when there is raised dietary intake?  The production of fat from non-fat sources is minimal at best, unless you are taking in massively more carbohydrates and calories than you need.  
Carbs can make you fat, but not because they are converted to fat, but because their consumption increases their utilization, meaning waht fat is eaten is stored.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]as far as athletes go that is a different situation
Click to expand...
Even less likely than the normal population
 
BoSox,
You must know alot about exercise phys and biochem. You were right about insulin. The hormone is more about just changing cell permeability to allow glucose to enter a cell, where normally (without insulin) it's not allowed to enter. The upregulation in protein synthesis is not as significant as i thought either. It's supposed to be one of the most potent hormones out their for bodybuilding (synthetic insulin). Perhaps I don't understand this hormone to its full extent.
Please correct me as you wish as I post on this forum. I don't ever want there to be a halt in my learning about biochem (which i pretty much call nutrition) and exercise physiology. Please have the utomst respect for me, even if I don't know as much as you. Maybe with your help, I will.
Sincerely,
Kyle
 
I don't know that much either, but you keep horribly oversimplifying things and leaping to ridiculous conclusions.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (kyleman1 @ Aug. 13 2005,3:49)]BoSox,
You must know alot about exercise phys and biochem. You were right about insulin. The hormone is more about just changing cell permeability to allow glucose to enter a cell, where normally (without insulin) it's not allowed to enter.
Click to expand...
Have you never heard of glucose transporters? and the way they are controlled within the cell. There is such a thing as insulin and non insulin dependant glucose disposal.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
The upregulation in protein synthesis is not as significant as i thought either.
Click to expand...
Basal levels of insulin appear to be adequate. Either way, protein will also raise insulin without glucose.
 
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