Gallon of Milk a day?

[Bulldog]

A mother produces milk for her young, plain and simple. And that is the only reason they produce milk. And that is also the direct purpose for that milk. Like it or not that is a fact.

Maybe I should have used a different word instead of "meant". How about this.....

A mothers milk is "intended" for her young? Better?

 

[scientific muscle]

Well, an apple is 'intended' to provide protection and nourishment to the seeds inside so that new apple trees may be born. I still eat them though.

 

[imported_etothepii]

Was a gazelle intended to be eaten by cheetahs? A deer by wolves? Should I cut venison out of my diet?

About the gallon per day, I guess power lifters drink it like that, but they don't care much about physique. Body builders from waaaaaaay back drank a lot of milk, from what I've read.

I had this theory that large quantities of whole milk, from grass fed cows may be great for the physique. Lots of protein, of course, plus the calcium which seems to block fat, plus large amounts of CLA in the fat that you do end up absorbing, which may boost the metabolism... Don't know of any study on this, but those old body builders (from before the mega-dairy farms) seemed to stay pretty lean.

 

[Bulldog]

Yeah, I know I'm being a bit ridiculous.

And to be completely honest I would drink more milk if I could. But I can't because I'm lactose intolerant. I guess I'm just jealous of those who can drink all the milk they want.

But I still think a good bulking diet should be built around whole foods with milk being a small part of the diet.

 

[scientific muscle]

AHA! LACTOSE INTOLERANCE! That explains your little rant here.

 

[Bulldog]

Yeah that's probably part of the reason.

But I do believe that milk is most beneficial to the young when they are growing quickly.

 

[Morgoth the Dark Enemy]

And detrimental to less young who want to grow muscle?Why?Milk is an optimised delivery matrix for a lot of nutrients. It has an 80% casein 20% whey blend of protein which is pretty darned good. It has CLA which may be good(I still have doubts it does jack squat, but Bryan seems to like it and he`s more educated than I am WRT the subject).

I really can`t see your argument as viable:the food that was absolutely great for quick growth and evolution whilst an infant sucks for growth when you`re an adult.Why?If anything, it`s even better then. If it`s a question of taste, lactose intolerance or whatnot, sure, there we can argue, but how can absolute statements like:milk sucks for non-calf/non-baby individuals, hold weight?

 

[Bulldog]

I don’t recall ever saying anything remotely close to “milk sucks for non-calf/non-baby individuals”. So I’m not sure where you got that from. And I have never disputed the nutritional value of milk. But it is a reality that a very high percentage of adults (approx. 75%) stop producing lactase or don’t produce as much as they did when they were young which makes it hard to digest milk. (Hmmm….mothers stop producing milk when their young stop feeding from them and most people stop producing lactase as they get older…coincidence? I doubt it.) Even if you don’t have bad symptoms of lactose intolerance there is still a good chance you aren’t digesting the milk as well as you think you are because of lower lactase levels, which can affect the digestion of other foods as well.

All I was saying is that I wouldn’t recommend that anyone base their bulking diet on milk. But that they should use milk to supplement their diet to meet their caloric goals if they can’t do so with whole foods. I have said this time and time again in this thread but it seems all anyone reads is that I don’t think milk is good for anything or anyone, which I have never said.

I will leave this thread alone now since I have nothing more to say on the subject.

 

[imported_etothepii]

I'm thinking of an experiment for some future cycle. No protein powder. A quart of milk 1 hour prior to lifting, another quart immediatly after.

 

[Morgoth the Dark Enemy]

<div>
(Bulldog @ Apr. 17 2007,09:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don’t recall ever saying anything remotely close to “milk sucks for non-calf/non-baby individuals”.  So I’m not sure where you got that from.  And I have never disputed the nutritional value of milk.  But it is a reality that a very high percentage of adults (approx. 75%) stop producing lactase or don’t produce as much as they did when they were young which makes it hard to digest milk.  (Hmmm….mothers stop producing milk when their young stop feeding from them and most people stop producing lactase as they get older…coincidence?  I doubt it.)  Even if you don’t have bad symptoms of lactose intolerance there is still a good chance you aren’t digesting the milk as well as you think you are because of lower lactase levels, which can affect the digestion of other foods as well.

All I was saying is that I wouldn’t recommend that anyone base their bulking diet on milk.  But that they should use milk to supplement their diet to meet their caloric goals if they can’t do so with whole foods.  I have said this time and time again in this thread but it seems all anyone reads is that I don’t think milk is good for anything or anyone, which I have never said.

I will leave this thread alone now since I have nothing more to say on the subject.</div>
Sorry if you took it personally, it`s just a debate after all. And if I misunderstood you sorry again. I still don`t agree with you WRT the use of milk for adults. And one shouldn`t base a bulking diet on milk, due to far less mystical reasons(shitting liquid is not that cool/pissing like you`re the source of the Deluge is not a sweet experience etc.). But that was never in question:the old-timers drank a gallon of milk a day, ate a ton of meat, a helluva lot of eggs etc. So milk was only a part of it.

 

[Bulldog]

I guess it depends on your daily caloric intake requirements to bulk. Sometimes I don't think outside my little box. And since I'm a smaller guy (160 lb right now) I don't require the calories that you bigger guys do.  I would imagine If you are taking in 6000+ calories per day then a gallon probably isn't all that much.  If you only need 3000 calories to bulk then a gallon would be about 2/3 or your caloric intake. Which I would think is a bit much.

 

[Morgoth the Dark Enemy]

Well, yes, certainly, and we`re not in the old days. A gallon is certainly a lot, 1-2 liters though?If you like milk, they`re fine

. Again, I hope you`re not upset about the exchange we had above, it would be a shame.

 

[Bulldog]

<div>
(Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Apr. 17 2007,15:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, yes, certainly, and we`re not in the old days. A gallon is certainly a lot, 1-2 liters though?If you like milk, they`re fine

. Again, I hope you`re not upset about the exchange we had above, it would be a shame.</div>
I'm not upset in any way.

 

[Ruthenian]

Bodybuilders, powerlifters, et al, approach food in a different manner than the general population.  Bulldog is right that milk is not naturally intended for adults, interspecies or otherwise. This makes it a legitimate question as to whether it should be a significant part of a &quot;normal&quot; diet.  There are a number of medical practitioners who have looked into it and decided not to give their own kids cow's milk.  Also, lactose intolerance is a significant issue outside of the caucasian population.

However, strength athletes don't eat &quot;normal&quot; diets, so then it simply becomes a question of whether it is an appropriate food for that subpopulation.  Also, while I have a bias to &quot;natural&quot; foods, Quad once rightly pointed out that we are not trying to be natural, we are trying to go beyond what is normally considered &quot;natural,&quot;  even if it is achieved by natural means.  In a secular sense, bodybuilders and strength athletes are trying to be &quot;supernatural.&quot;  

That said, I am a vegan and never touch the stuff.  But I don't really have the inclination to research the implications for the general populace, nor to proselytise on the issue.  And I have to admit that since the protein powder I normally use has become impossible to find (Naturade is in Chapter 11), whey powder has been awfully tempting.  

 

[quadancer]

I don't eat a lot of cheese. Why? Too much fat. I drink a fair bit of milk (1/2 gal/day?) but it's lowfat. I just do it because of the protein and I get sick of water. Eggs every day, 3-5, chikkins, and red meat every 2-3 days. I think that's a good balance.

etothepii : you gonna supplement that milk with 4-5 pounds of meat? We use the whey for the speed of the uptake and the AMOUNT of protein in the serving. Not that you can't do without whey: it just takes a lot of cow/fish/bird or a sickening amount of eggs. Whey is the best shortcut I know.

 

[Totentanz]

It's not too hard to hit your protein goals with just meat. I've not had any whey today yet, though I have drank milk and eaten meat. I've gotten about 150 grams of protein so far. A small protein shake and I'll be at my BW in protein for today.

Still... very hard to do that every day without using whey. Not very cheap either.

 

[Aaron_F]

<div>
(Ruthenian @ Apr. 18 2007,10:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bodybuilders, powerlifters, et al, approach food in a different manner than the general population. Bulldog is right that milk is not naturally intended for adults, interspecies or otherwise. This makes it a legitimate question as to whether it should be a significant part of a &quot;normal&quot; diet.</div>
If milk is not intended for adults and not meant to be a part of the normal diet

what makes reproductive prodcuts of plants suitable for adults? they are not intended for anything other than supporting the growth of new plants.

what makes them a part of a normal diet?

 

[Morgoth the Dark Enemy]

<div>
(Aaron_F @ Apr. 18 2007,06:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Ruthenian @ Apr. 18 2007,10:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bodybuilders, powerlifters, et al, approach food in a different manner than the general population.  Bulldog is right that milk is not naturally intended for adults, interspecies or otherwise. This makes it a legitimate question as to whether it should be a significant part of a &quot;normal&quot; diet.</div>
If milk is not intended for adults and not meant to be a part of the normal diet

what makes reproductive prodcuts of plants suitable for adults? they are not intended for anything other than supporting the growth of new plants.

what makes them a part of a normal diet?</div>
Art de Vany and Cordain.

 

[imported_etothepii]

&quot;Intended for&quot; or &quot;meant for&quot; is subjective. It's a matter of opinion, not science or nature.

The fact that &quot;There are a number of medical practitioners who have looked into it and decided not to give their own kids cow's milk&quot; means nothing. More medical practitioners do consume and support milk use than do not, so if medical practitioners' opinions are so important, I'll go with the majority.

&quot;Interspecies&quot; is brought up as if it's a dirty thing. I don't know about you, but ALL the food I eat is interspecies. I eat nothing that is intraspecies.

&quot;Outside the caucasian population,&quot; Hmm... I'm caucasian... but still, I've seen milk drunk in Africa and camel's milk drunk in the middle east on a variety of Discovery Channel or National Geogfraphic type television shows. Just two days ago, a guy on a National Geographic show was drinking fermented milk in Asia. My guess is that the lactose intolerent should avoid milk. Leave everyone else alone.

 

[Ruthenian]

Boy, you guys are absolutely rabid about your milk, aren't you?  No where did I take a position on whether anyone should drink milk, I merely pointed out that it was a legitimate question to ask for the general populace.  This is also the context of my comment on the decisions of some medical practitioners.  The point being: it is a legitimate discussion point.  Myself, it just isn't important enough for me to come to some conclusion on the issue beyond my own diet.  

Somehow, my agreement that it might be appropriate for bodybuilders and athletes got turned into this big deal.  But, as I don't have a dog in this fight, I'll be happy to respond:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've seen milk drunk in Africa and camel's milk drunk in the middle east on a variety of Discovery Channel or National Geogfraphic type television shows. Just two days ago, a guy on a National Geographic show was drinking fermented milk in Asia. </div>
And that is supposed to be equivalent to drinking a gallon a day?  Or even the kind of consumption levels the dairy industry promotes?

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">what makes reproductive prodcuts of plants suitable for adults? they are not intended for anything other than supporting the growth of new plants.</div>
Problems with this comment:

- What makes them part of a normal diet is that humans developed using them as a food source.  If early humans ever had access to milk after childhood it was  in extremely limited quantities.

- Further, milk is explicitly produced as a food, so it is appropriate to ask how it is best used as a food.

- In a sense, it is true that &quot;...reproductive products of plants ... are not intended for anything other than supporting the growth of new plants.&quot;  However, the adaptive strategy of some plants means that the fruit was palatable to some animals so that the seeds would be carried elsewhere or disseminated in their feces.

[Whoops, accidently deleted the rest of this post. Oh well  

]