Gamechanger: Gain 30, Pull 500.

My surgery yesterday went well. Almost no pain at all today! I've been watching Deadlift videos all day to get some ideas on how to improve my form. I have realized that I really need to work on my hip flexibility to keep my butt low and my lower back tight. I also watched a bunch of different stances and it seems by best stance is either a narrow semi-sumo, or a wide conventional. I like my feet planted just about shoulder-width with toes turned out slightly, but while I have been keeping my arms inside my knees lately (semi-sumo) I think I might be stronger doing a conventional pull, once I get hip flexibility better. I will start work on my hip stretching right away, so I can get more down towards the bar without bending my back.
 
Glad your surgery went well and you are on the mend!

Not that I'm any expert on deadlifting, but I used to do a modified sumo-stance because I thought I felt more powerful that way... legs just outside arms, feet pointed out. Then I got my conventional form correct, stance, grip, starting position, breathing correct; now there is simply no comparison. For me, conventional is where I feel most powerful.

To figure out proper form, I watched Rippetoe videos for deadlifting like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht363HslwnM&feature=endscreen&NR=1
 
I'm itching to get back into the gym. Next cycle starts this weekend. Back on the bulking wagon!
 
Sci said:
My surgery yesterday went well. Almost no pain at all today! I've been watching Deadlift videos all day to get some ideas on how to improve my form. I have realized that I really need to work on my hip flexibility to keep my butt low and my lower back tight. I also watched a bunch of different stances and it seems by best stance is either a narrow semi-sumo, or a wide conventional. I like my feet planted just about shoulder-width with toes turned out slightly, but while I have been keeping my arms inside my knees lately (semi-sumo) I think I might be stronger doing a conventional pull, once I get hip flexibility better. I will start work on my hip stretching right away, so I can get more down towards the bar without bending my back.
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Just as a thought, "butt low" is a pretty ****ty cue for the deadlift, imo. The hips need to be high enough to accommodate the bar being/staying over the ~center of your foot, and the result of this is a vertical-when-viewed-from-the-side pull. This, of course, being standard Rippetoe dogma, but in my experience is the best way to go about it.

The bigger issue is setting the lower back properly. My experience is that a belt actually leaves me slightly more flexed than not wearing a belt. Either way, the ability to brace the entire midsection and not lose that spinal position throughout the pull is what will make it safe, imo.
 
mikeynov said:
Just as a thought, "butt low" is a pretty ****ty cue for the deadlift, imo. The hips need to be high enough to accommodate the bar being/staying over the ~center of your foot, and the result of this is a vertical-when-viewed-from-the-side pull. This, of course, being standard Rippetoe dogma, but in my experience is the best way to go about it.

The bigger issue is setting the lower back properly. My experience is that a belt actually leaves me slightly more flexed than not wearing a belt. Either way, the ability to brace the entire midsection and not lose that spinal position throughout the pull is what will make it safe, imo.
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Thanks Mikey. I will keep that in mind. Also, I have decided to not wear a belt anymore, for other reasons, it just seems to get in the way mostly. I appreciate the tips.

Also, thanks to native, that first video Is so simple, but seems like a great way to setup sir the Deadlift.
 
Sci said:
Also, thanks to native, that first video Is so simple, but seems like a great way to setup sir the Deadlift.
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If the setup is wrong, then the whole lift is wrong. I suppose you can say that about most lifts, but it seems especially true with the deadlift.
 
Deadlift: 255 3x5
I tried a conventional stance, which gives me a significant advantage in hip drive, but because of my ridiculously long torso, puts a tremendous amount of shear force on my erectors. It kind of sucks, since I am stronger in the conventional pull, but my body proportions are much more suited to the semi-sumo pull. Again, because of my long torso, I have to use a wider stance than a conventional pull will allow. At least that is cleared up once and for all. Anyway, it was a great back workout today.

Bench Press: 155 3x10
I used a power-lifter type of setup. Wide-grip, arched back, scapula pulled back, elbows pointed towards feet. Felt really great, no shoulder pain. The only downside is that I felt it more in my triceps than in my pecs. The only way to really target the pecs hard, is to flare my elbows, which is probably not wise, due to my wonky right shoulder.
Because of longish arms, it seems that no matter what exercise I use, I am destined to have huge triceps in order to get big pectorals. That's fine. For shoulder safety sake, I am going to keep with this style, and see how it goes.

Pulldowns: 150 3x10
Whole upper back and lats really pumped.

I ran out of time this morning, so didn't bother with calves or anything else. Still a decent workout, felt great after my 10 day SD.
 
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Sci said:
Deadlift: 255 3x5
I tried a conventional stance, which gives me a significant advantage in hip drive, but because of my ridiculously long torso, puts a tremendous amount of shear force on my erectors. It kind of sucks, since I am stronger in the conventional pull, but my body proportions are much more suited to the semi-sumo pull. Again, because of my long torso, I have to use a wider stance than a conventional pull will allow. At least that is cleared up once and for all. Anyway, it was a great back workout today.

Bench Press: 155 3x10
I used a power-lifter type of setup. Wide-grip, arched back, scapula pulled back, elbows pointed towards feet. Felt really great, no shoulder pain. The only downside is that I felt it more in my triceps than in my pecs. The only way to really target the pecs hard, is to flare my elbows, which is probably not wise, due to my wonky right shoulder.
Because of longish arms, it seems that no matter what exercise I use, I am destined to have huge triceps in order to get big pectorals. That's fine. For shoulder safety sake, I am going to keep with this style, and see how it goes.

Pulldowns: 150 3x10
Whole upper back and lats really pumped.

I ran out of time this morning, so didn't bother with calves or anything else. Still a decent workout, felt great after my 10 day SD.
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I feel you on the deadlift thing. Semi sumo is a very productive stance, the only reason I don't use it is due to the fact that it seems to irritate my sciatic problems.

For the bench, that's pretty much the nature of the PL bench - more tuck = you shift some of the emphasis to shoulders/triceps compared to an elbows-more-flared position. Just bear in mind that the elbows should still be "under the bar," as it were, i.e. the forearm should be vertical at the bottom. Too much tuck is a product of using bench shirts, you really just want "enough" as a raw lifter, if that makes sense. Touching at the nipple line or so is usually a reasonable amount of tuck for a raw lifter, whereas shirted lifters will literally wind up doing "belly benches" several inches lower than that.
 
mikeynov said:
I feel you on the deadlift thing. Semi sumo is a very productive stance, the only reason I don't use it is due to the fact that it seems to irritate my sciatic problems.

For the bench, that's pretty much the nature of the PL bench - more tuck = you shift some of the emphasis to shoulders/triceps compared to an elbows-more-flared position. Just bear in mind that the elbows should still be "under the bar," as it were, i.e. the forearm should be vertical at the bottom. Too much tuck is a product of using bench shirts, you really just want "enough" as a raw lifter, if that makes sense. Touching at the nipple line or so is usually a reasonable amount of tuck for a raw lifter, whereas shirted lifters will literally wind up doing "belly benches" several inches lower than that.
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My adductors are the weak link in semi-sumo, but they should come along fine with more frequent pulling.

With bench, I will definitely be using a little less tuck next time. I was basically lowering the bar to just below the sternum. I will probably widen the grip slightly and lower the bar a bit higher up on my chest. I could care less if I am benching 30 pounds or 300 pounds, I just want to get the pecs up, so the wide grip stays, and I will slowly play with elbow positioning to find the sweet spot of maximum chest-stimulation, less the shoulder impingement. Obviously guillotine presses are about the best pectoral exercise in the universe, if only my right shoulder could manage it. I will probably end up with some sort of balance between the two.

Edit: even with a wide grip bench, today I noticed my front delts are super sore...pecs are not sore! :(
You know, I might just keep with dips, the only problem with them is the dip bars aren't wide enough for me at the gym. Tomorrow I am going going to see if there are any wider dip bars anywhere. I used to have my own homemade WIDE dip bars for my old home gym and that was perfect. The dip bars at my current gym are quite narrow, and for a tall guy like me are a bit too tricep-y.
 
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WG bench always hit the delts hard, IMO. There's a lot of stretch there. It tends to lose the triceps, IMO.

Have you tried decline BB bench ? There's minimal delt work in there.
 
Yeah, I tried it in the past, but the decline bench at the gym is a bit wobbly, and I have never been comfortable with declines without a spotter.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that weighted dips are probably the best for my chest. I was seeing chest growth all last cycle, but you know...its never enough for us OCD bodybuilders...lol.:o
It seems that benching isn't necessarily going to be an improvement over dips as a chest exercise. There is an assisted dip machine that just might have a wider grip adjustment, I am going to try it. The steps flip us, so I could easily do weighted dips on it. If that doesn't work, I will just go back to the other dip station.
 
Yeh Dips are always best. Pec pulls the arms down (and across). So you're either doing Dips or a Cable Crossover (which is also fine, it's still a compound), and the CC being a press movement not a like fly-movement.
 
AlexAustralia said:
Yeh Dips are always best. Pec pulls the arms down (and across). So you're either doing Dips or a Cable Crossover (which is also fine, it's still a compound), and the CC being a press movement not a like fly-movement.
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Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Dips are king for sure.
 
Wide Bar Dips: 215 3x10
Ok, so I measured the assisted dip machine bars, and at the wide setting, they are a few inches wider than the main dip station. So I gave it a shot....AWESOME. While the narrow dip bars are the best tricep exercise I have ever experienced, the slightly wider dip bars are amazing on my pectorals! I got a tremendous pump of my pecs and even my deltoids. I was just a slight bit weaker with the wider bars due to the mechanical disadvantage, but whereas with the narrow dip bars, my triceps fail first, the wider dip bars allowed me to put the brunt of the tension directly on the pecs! Just what I have been looking for! Not even a comparison to benching for me.
After three sets of these, my pecs and deltoids were pumped way up, swollen up like giant ticks full of blood!

WG Pulldowns: 160 3x10 I widened my grip a bit, but still close to shoulder-width. As I have stated before, if I use too wide a grip with these, it seems to shift the emphasis from my lats, and puts it on my teres major and rear delts.

Deadlift: 275 3x5 Semi-sumo, as usual. I have far better torque with this style. My back is just a tad more upright than with the conventional stance, and this allows me to transmit the force of my legs and hips up the spine far better.

Incline Laterals: 15s 3x10 I usually do these at home as "prehab" work, but decided to make them my main deltoid hypertrophy exercise at the gym. I never notice it at home, but with the gym mirrors, I was surprised to see how pumped up my deltoids were after these! I think these are a great mass-builder, as well as good for shoulder balance and health.

Uni-Calf Raises: BW+100 (315) for 3x12 I did these much slower than usual and focused on the stretch, and getting a good ROM. Very hard. Made the weight feel heavier than usual.
 
Interesting, I might give those wider dips a try... my gym has a set of dip bars that essentially have 3 settings of width; both bars rolled in, one bar rolled in, and both bars rolled out. Considering my width, I think the both bars rolled out setting would be too wide, but maybe 1 out would better hit my pecs. Probably worth a try.
 
nativetroutbum said:
Interesting, I might give those wider dips a try... my gym has a set of dip bars that essentially have 3 settings of width; both bars rolled in, one bar rolled in, and both bars rolled out. Considering my width, I think the both bars rolled out setting would be too wide, but maybe 1 out would better hit my pecs. Probably worth a try.
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Yeah, it's all dependent on your body proportions. I am 6'1" and I have really wide clavicles, even wider than average for my height, so I bench with a super-wide grip and I need extra wide dip bars, etc. the regular dip bars are just perfect for most guys, just not for me.
 
Lol said:
Nice :cool: Quick and dirty!
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It's going well. Body weight is up. I'm still a bit disappointed with my lats, but they're coming along. I seem to be growing well even in the first week of 10s. HST really works. I should easily be 220 pounds by the end of this cycle, then a long, slow cutting cycle...
 
This will sound strange, but in my experience, the hypertrophy for lats always seems to be a bit 'delayed'. Arms and chest, quads etc. react pretty quickly to resistance and eating, where as lats for whatever reason always seem to take a bit longer. No idea why, my impression is obviously subjective and 100% conjecture but that's my observation.

I'll do a kick ass cycle, break some PRs etc and then it won't be until two weeks after it that I realise there was growth.
 
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