General Question about my routine

C

ChrisROCK

New Member
I'm in the process of dtermining my RMs. Here is the issue I've stumbled across:

lets say my 15 RM for squats is 155, and I'll be using 10 lb. increments. So, it would go 105, 115, 125, 135, 145, 155...

My 10 RM for squats is 185, and with 10 lb. increments, the workouts would be 135, 145, 155, 165, 175, 185.

So this then means that works 4,5,6 of the 15s and workouts 1,2,3 of the 10s, are all using the same poundage. Is this OK? Is this normal? Is this on purpose??

ANy insight is appreciated before i get this thing started. I would imagine this will happen with other exercises as well, this is just one simple example.

Thanks.
 
That's called zigzagging, and it's not unsual. It's not desirable, but it's not that big of a deal either. Try multiplying the max weight for each rep range by 95%, or 0.95, and doing that with the resulting weight too. Take that number and round it off to the nearest 5 or 10 weight increment and use those numbers instead of just going up or down by ten pounds. Sometimes that eliminates or at least minimizes zigzagging because instead of random increments you're actually shooting for as close to a 5% increase as possible each workout.

When going from 15s to 10s you usually up the volume a little too by going from one set to two, so if the reps are done correctly you're muscles will see more time under tension during the repeated tens even though they're using the same weight.
 
Well, now I'm slightly more confused... First of all, I've read that during the 15s...do 2 sets per exercise... then first half of the 10s 2 sets again....second half of the 10s, 1 set....

Which is it?

And as for the zigzagging, this is based on my 15RMs plus 20% to get my 10RMs. The 10s might be higher when i actually do them today, but in if you use the 20% rule, then this zigzagging would always occur.
 
is it better to zigzag alittle like hes talking about or do the same weight two workouts in a row sometimes??
 
As for the number of sets: some people keep volume constant, some up it, some down it. By going one set for 15s, two for 10s, and three for 5s, you keep it relatively constant. Adjust from there depending on how you recover/handle the workouts. I keep volume consistent when I do HST.

There really isn't a preference as far as zigzagging over repeating a workout. They both suffer from the same problem which is lifting a weight that your body is already conditioned to. There are a couple guidelines. More important than repeating a workout here and there is the range of weight used from the begining to the end of the HST cycle. Repeating or zigzagging a little isn't a big deal, if you can't avoid it don't worry about it. If you're going to choose to repeat a workout make it one of the ones towards the end of one of the microcycles. The heavier weights are more likely to be able to cause trauma to muscle over more than one workout.

Remember, HST is a set of principles to be applied to how you train. If when you apply them as best you can to your workout it doesn't turn out to be the perfect ideal cycle, don't worry. It's cool. The more you read and understand what's happening, the more confident and able you'll be to design better workouts, knowing what does and does not matter. to be honest I say workout the weights with a 5% increase each workout instead of just 10lbs. If it still works out that there's some zigzagging, don't worry. No biggie.
 
I agree with what Xahrx said about zig zag.

as far as Chris' question on sets, this is dependant on your state of conditioning, you should be using the most volume you can handle without being excessivley sore, losing desire to train, showing signs of strength loss or it interfering with keeping your frequency high.

Bryan's set protocol is a good place to start but he also says.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Increase volume if:

You are never sore
You are never tired
You are not growing

Maintain volume if:

You are slightly sore most of the time
You are tired enough to sleep well, but not so tired you lose motivation to train.
You are noticeably “fuller”

Decrease volume if:

You are experiencing over use pain, and strain symptoms in joints and/or muscles.
You are tired and irritable all the time, yet don’t sleep well.
Strength levels are significantly decreasing.
Click to expand...

Try it and see how it goes.
thumbs-up.gif
 
dkm, xahrx,

Thanks to you both...good info.

How about number of exercises...I'm having trouble with what to eliminate, and what to keep. I also don't want to go overboard.

Here is what I was thinking...

Squats
SLDL
WG Pulldowns
Bent Barbell Rows
Shrugs
Lateral Raises
Reverse Pec Deck
DB Curls
Lying tricep Extentions
Incline DB Press
Dips
Calf Raises
Weighted Crunches

Is this too much?

Also, the rule of thumb is to keep the exercises the same throughout the cycle, yes?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
Squats
SLDL
WG Pulldowns
Bent Barbell Rows
Shrugs
Lateral Raises
Reverse Pec Deck
DB Curls
Lying tricep Extensions
Incline DB Press
Dips
Calf Raises
Weighted Crunches
Click to expand...
Wow, I use almost the same routine, except I use bench press for dips, arnold press for DB incline press, french press for tricep extensions, and no rear flyes. Also, I use a 1x15, 1x10 + 1x5, 3x5 set scheme to keep the total repetitions constant.
Some pointers from personal observance and other threads:
-I have found that the isolation exercises are not really all that advantageous in the 15s; you do not have to keep the exercises consistent, but I do not think that you should drop exercises later in the macrocycle.
-In addition, if you wish to cut time, you could replace WG pulldowns with underhand normal width pullups, dropping the tricep extensions and curls. You already get elbow flexion and extension with pullups and dips.
-I guess lateral raises are not NECESSARY, but I do them to hopefully gain some width in the shoulders. However, since you use DB incline press for shoulders, the medial deltoid is not emphasized as much, so in your routine, it might be more beneficial. Also, you might try the incline lying lateral raise for stretch-point advantages.
That is about all I have. If I can be of any other help with my experience, just ask.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ChrisROCK @ Mar. 30 2005,6:30)]How about number of exercises...I'm having trouble with what to eliminate, and what to keep.  I also don't want to go overboard.
Click to expand...
Read Bryan's comments here
Selecting Exercises
 
Thanks Dkm and Roy...

So let me make sure I understand this correctly...

Lets assume I take my 12 or so exercises and divide them into 2 groups of 6. Workout A and B.

I had been planning to do a M/W/F split...2-a-days is not possible for me. So I would alterante A-B-A-B-A-B. So each group of exercises would only be done 3 times on a microcycle?
butbut.gif
And if so, how do you choose your increase increments? Just make them much larger increments?

Please excuse my ignorance.
 
From the exercise FAQ
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If you are concerned about not using enough exercises, simply set up two sets of 6-7 exercises for the entire body. Use the calculator and get all your weights for each exercise. Then alternate between the two sets of exercises each time you train the whole body. So, if you train everything in one day, you would do one set of exercises on Monday, and the other on Wednesday, then repeat the first on Friday, followed by the second on the next Monday, etc, etc.
Click to expand...

You would use the same increment plan.
 
Right, i understand that... So, each group of exercises then would only be done 3 times in a microcycle? I'm sorry I'm having trouble grasping this....
sad.gif
 
THANKS! :D

So, any particular way you would divide these exercise into two groups?

Squats
SLDL
WG Pulldowns
Bent Barbell Rows
Shrugs
Lateral Raises
Reverse Pec Deck
DB Curls
Lying tricep Extentions
Tricep Pushdowns
Incline DB Press
Dips
Calf Raises
Weighted Crunches
 
I guess I would try my best to touch each muscle group during each workout.
Perhaps (not sure if all the groups are indicated):

A
WG Pulldowns  (lat + bicep)
Lying Tricep Extensions (tricep)
DB Incline Press (anterior deltoid + pectoralis)
SLDL (hamstring + errector spine)
Weighted Crunches (rectus abdominus)

B
Dips (pectoralis + tricep)
DB curl (bicep)
Bent barbell rows (lat + rhomboid)
Reverse Pec Deck (posterior deltoid?)
Lateral Raises (medial deltoid)
Squat (quadracep)

These could go either day:

Tricep Pushdown (tricep)
Shrugs (trapezius)
Calf raise (gastro + soleus)

I am not sure, but I would say this just to try and keep the frequency for each movement up. If you did, say, all the tricep work on one day, it would be atleast 4 days until the next time you exercised that group. Just a thought.
 
so just to be sure I'm CRYSTAL clear here....each grouping of exercises would be done 3 times during each microcycle?

I determined my 15RM for Shrugs to be 185... It breaks down to 135,145,155,165,175,185... Would i just do 135, 155, 185:confused: hmmm or would i do 145, 165, 185....?

that IS the right idea yes?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]so just to be sure I'm CRYSTAL clear here....each grouping of exercises would be done 3 times during each microcycle?
Click to expand...

Yes.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Would i just do 135, 155, 185  hmmm  or would i do 145, 165, 185....?  
Click to expand...

I would go with 145... because your increments are more consistant. Not that it matters all that much in terms of gains, but I think it to be eaiser psychologically, knowing how much heavier the weight is than the last lift.
 
is there any real drawback to this method though Roy? Is this straying too far from the standard HST routine? Or do the principles remain the same, there by making it just as effective?


Or would you say, just suck it up and pick out 8 exercises and do them 3 times per week? :)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ChrisROCK @ Mar. 30 2005,3:15)]Or would you say, just suck it up and pick out 8 exercises and do them 3 times per week?  :)
Click to expand...
I say suck it up. If you are newer to lifting you are going to see the greatest increases by going with the bigger exercises, as you get more developed then worry about adding in more exercises, if needed.
 
Heh... That's part of my problem... I'm only new to HST...figured I'd try it out for a change of pace. I've been lifting since I was 15 years old...I'm 33 now. Fitness has always been part of my life. The last year I've been more dedicated than ever...and have made great gains in size and strength.

So, the issue is somewhat of a fear of losing size...#1...and just really wanting to see max. gains from this program.
 
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