Getting lean without losing beef

yeah I dunno.

1) Maybe my body is sick of losing fat. I've come from 215 to 177ish from early january, plus gained a few lbs of muscle I'm sure. Thats alot of lard, probably in the neighborhood of 40 lbs (I started as a fat newbie and engaged in little caloric control, so i don't think iIve lost much muscle to date).

2) Maybe I'm running at maintenance/slightly below maintenance, due to the spiking over 3000 (3500 is too high) which also doesn't make sense because if you calculate it I'm still running a deficit (assuming my maintenance is actually 2700 which I do not think it is...I've eaten above this for weeks at a stretch with no weight gain).

3) Maybe I'm losing weight at about 1 lb per week. If you look at my weight on the morning after bulk or re load days, it seems to be consistently dropping. slightly under 180 to start, and now I was 177 flat this morning.

4) I wish I had taken careful pics to compare, but the other issue is, I look a lot more defined in the mirror, I actually have a shoulder to hip ratio going, some new veins, less boob, some muscle popping through in the abdominal area, ribs... this is all new, as of the two weeks of UD2.0 and whatever I'm doing right now. Maybe its working as a recomp? maybe i'm still riding the newbie wave. Or maybe I'm deluding myself lol
 
Keep doing what you're doing. Some guys would kill for those results. Weight is just a number; it's the mirror we want to fix, right?
If you wanted more fatloss, then some form of cycling to reinvigorate the metabolism comes to mind. I would have thought the IF would take care of that, but perhaps it's subject to the same limitations over time that other diets have.
 
Losing weight too quick is not good in the long run. Cutting over 3500 calories per week may lead to muscle loss. It's a game that you have to play with your body. You have to figure out not only your metabolism, but also your partitioning ratio.

I like using the magic number of 33 (found through trials in a U-Minn experiment) as my basis for max calories cut per day. Multiply the pounds of fat on your body by 33. Therefore, if you are 180 lbs and you are 12% body fat, then the amount of fat you carry is 21.6 lbs. 21.6*33 = 712.8 calories as the maximum amount of calories you should cut in a given day. That come out to 1.43 lbs per week.
 
Friday June 13th

Weight In Morning: 174.2

Waist: Barely over 31, I'd say 31.1 inches

Caloric Intake: < 1325

Routine: 40 mins of cycling, low-mod intensity A HR: 142

20 mins incline treadmill, low-mod intensity, alternate jogging A HR: 148


I shifted the Fri workout to Sat because I have a family engagement during the day on Saturday, and if my mother sees me eating grilled chicken and veggies and skipping cake, she'll blow a gasket. So I'm gonna lift like a demon in the morning and have a IF style gorge at lunch. WOOHOOO!!!

Note: It feels good to turn up the intensity on the cardio. I've always been so paranoid of 'losing muscle' by doing ANY cardio that was above a snails pace (anything above HR 130). The reality is, I've been in great cardiovascular shape my whole life, and I'm lifting heavy, so I don't think 3-4 days a week of moderate intensity is going to kill more than a few grams here and there. Add to that the fact that my legs are in no way close to over training because I train them with less intensity due to knee problems (only leg presses and calf presses), and I'm optimistic. Lyle McDonald seems to concur, but he's an endurance weenie, so we'll see
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Experience, observation and results are the only things that ultimately matter. I lose muscle, I stop. Simple.
 
First of all, thank you for all the feedback and support guys, it really helps and keep me going. I can't believe how cool everyone is on this forum.
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I hear you Quad, the reality is I've done quite a bit in less than half a year and I need to check my ego when I start getting antsy like this. As far as calorie cycling goes, like you said, I thought this 24/24 split would have taken care of it, and perhaps it did, but maybe its working slower than we thought. (Maybe the caloric overload on WO days is actually leading to a bit more muscle growth than usual, who knows. My protein intake on the whole is increased as well).

UD2.0 was really fast, but I also felt like I was losing strength and muscle, despite the steady 2 lb loss/week.

Colby I agree with you, but have come to doubt these things recently. I used to believe the alan aragon and michael colgan camp: don't lose more than .5 lb per week, and don't expect to gain more than 10lbs of LBM per year. Stick to that, and in a few years you'll be a monster, and always look good without the cyclling.

But then we have all the diets: PSMF is supposedly protein sparing, but its a terribly deep cut. IF is supposedly lean mass preserving, but veterans of BBing like Quad say they've lost beef on it. And I'm not patient enough for the colgan approach.

My issue is, I've never been super lean, except as a long distance runner, i.e. emaciated and NOT muscular. So I don't really know how to do this without losing muscle, but am trying to learn.

Further, I've taken a lot of what Lyle says on this subject seriously (despite labels like protein SPARING modified fast, etc). You will ALWAYS lose muscle on a cut, especially as a natural.

More to the point, for some men, around 10-15% BF is where the muscle loss begins to really accelerate to a frightening extent if we try and go lower. Hence the need for cyclical dieting.

I can def say for this 24/24, that I got all the strength back and then some that I lost on UD2.0, I've set a few PR (in this rep range at least).
 
Saturday June 14th

Weight in morning: 172.6 lbs (new valley)

Waist: 31 inches

(Note: My work pants, which are 2-3 weeks old or so, don't fit comfortably anymore, way too big. I think I lost some appreciable fat in my butt. In addition my belt needs a new hole. One more here, I had to drop down another shirt size in my work uniform. Multiple comments about how I've lost "even more" weight in my face.)

Routine: Incline Bench (DB) 3X8 (60 lb DBs)
Weighted Dip 3X8 (25 lbs)

Weighted Chin 3X7ish (15 lbs)
Bent/Yates Row 3X8 (100lbs)

Leg press 3x8 (260lbs)
Seated Calf 2x8 (135 lbs) (bad cramps!)

Barbell Curl 25 reps M=10 sec (30 lbs)
Rev Grip Bench 3X7ish (70lbs)

Power Shrugs 3X10 (50 lbs)
Barbell Press 25 reps M=10 sec (50lbs)

Crunch Machine 2X8 (170) lbs
 
You seem to be doing fine, Being!
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Have you lost any size in the muscular department, or is it only in the mid and lower back section?
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I really don't know.

What I can say is that I've lost no strength, and have in fact exceeded last cycles maxes in this rep range on a few major movements. But as I understand it, strength is half neural, so one could conceivably lose mass and retain/gain strength I guess, in principle (especially in a newbie I would imagine, as I'm still making improvements in form/control all the time as there is still much to improve!)

My biceps, fully flexed, base to peak, have pretty much stayed a stable 15.2 inches. I'm hoping this means good things.

But it seems losing slabs of fat can def make you feel/look like you're losing muscle mass, even if you look more defined...even if you're not losing mass at all.

I'm going to have to get some tutelage with the calipers.
 
Sunday June 15th

Weight in morning: 174 lbs

Waist: 31 inches


OK. thats a big drop in weight. thats a really non linear loss that amounts to ~5 lbs, measured reload morning to reload morning (mornings after a refeed). Now I'm worried
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I'll probably eat 'normal' today
 
I'm still going strong! I've been very busy as of late, social engagements, school, research, work, etc.

I've become a little lazy about detail oriented logging.

I've been following the program as planned, except I have added a few more maintenance type days this week due to social BS that I must deal with.

Also, I am doing 2 workouts a day on Mon and Weds.

Having some anterior deltoid pain the right shoulder, as a result (I think) of trying full ROM with a barbell to incorporate max stim. The lowest portion of the negative rep puts alot of strain on my shoulders. Not sure why I pushed my self. I was happy with the dumbbells. Now even the DBs annoy me when i kick up the weight, for a brief moment the weight is very low and the shoulder is being pressed down upon, and the deltoid hurts again.

It is getting better though.
 
I dropped the math, and now I'm regretting it. May have gained back a pound or two, not sure, but what I am sure of, is that I'm pissed off and re invested in doing this in a detail oriented way!

Anger can be a beautiful source of energy
 
Monday:

Weight In Morning: 171.6 lbs

Routine: HST X 2

10 mins of cardio

Caloric Intake: Too high to think about

My neck/trap on the right side got strained as all hell doing power shrugs. Feels like when you wake up in the morning and can't turn your neck all the way. Slowly getting better as of now (tues afternoon) I think...
 
Tuesday June 24th:

Weight In Morning 176 lbs***

Caloric Intake: 1200 calories

Routine: WO 1


50 mins SS cardio HR:146

WO 2 (around midnight, 36 hours from last)


Incline Bench (DB) 3X5 (70 lb DBs)
Weighted Dip 3X5 (35 lbs)

Weighted Chin 3X5 (25 lbs)
Bent/Yates Row 3X8 (100lbs)

Leg press 3x5 (360lbs)
Seated Calf 2X5(160lbs)

Barbell Curl 20 reps M=10 (40bs)
Narrow Grip Bench 2X5 (90lbs)


DB Shoul. Press 3X5 (50 lb DBs)

Crunch Machine 3X5 (185lbs)

SS Cardio, Inc Walking HR:148 35 mins

I'm trying out a home concocted EC stack as of today. Primatene + caffeine pills, in the dose style Bryan recommends (10mg E (actually has to be 12.5 mg in my case) + 100 mg C every two hours).



****Lot of salty jap/chin food last night. lot of over eating too. by mid day already, i'm feeling/looking less bloated, down to 174 lbs

its amazing what the wrong foods can do to your weight/appearance.

I've set PRs and feel/look stronger/bigger. This has in effect made my 'beep' grow a bit and I'm increasing volume. Perhaps I'll regret it. But I'll record the details, and learn
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weds june 25th:

weight in morning: 172.8

waist: under 31 I think! woohooo

Caloric Intake: 3050 calories

routine: BB rows: 3X5 (110 lbs)
Pull down machine: 3X5 (190 lbs)

Fly Machine: 3X5 (180 lbs)
Reverse 3X10(105 lbs)

Weighted Dip 3X5 (35 lbs)

rev grip tri press 3X5 (110 lbs)
Crunch Machine 3X5 (185lbs)

SS Cardio 30 mins (5 min cool down)

HR 148
 
1200 -> 3000 calorie intake from one day to the next

I must say that your peaks and valleys are like the Rocky Mountains while mine are like the Appalachians!
 
thurs June 26th:

weight in morning:172.4 lbs

waist:still a hair under 31

calories: 1250

routine: SS cardio, 2 X today:

1) 60 mins + 5 min cool down HR:142

2) 40 mins +5 min cool down HR:148
 
Friday June 27th:

Weight in morning: 171.4 lbs

Calories: 3000 on the tits

Waist: still creeping below 31, barely

Routine: Incline Bench (DB) 3X5 (70 lb DBs)
Weighted Dip 3X5 (35 lbs)

Weighted Chin 2X5 (25 lbs)
Bent/Yates Row 3X8 (110lbs)

Leg press 2x5 (360lbs)**
Seated Calf 2X5(160lbs)

Barbell Curl 20 reps M=10 (40bs)
Narrow Grip Bench 3X5 (90lbs)


DB Shoul. Press 3X5 (50 lb DBs)

Crunch Machine 3X5 (190lbs)

Pulldowns: 2X5 (190lbs)


Legs were def feeling the impact of increased cardio, I'll tweak accordingly to avoid this level of fatigue next week. I' going to have to settle for not maxing out my legs till I start bulking and drop/cut back the cardio big time.

My refeed days are typically 40/30/30 caloric proportions. Today I made a conscious effort to go for absolutely minimal fat, lower protein than usual (1gr/lb LBM), and real high carb.

It feels so unnatural to me to eat this way (67% carbs, minimal fat), and very difficult to control hunger. It even tends to upset my stomach.

I still suspect I am hyperinsulinemic, though today the swings weren't so bad at all. But all in all I really hate eating in these proportions, but I felt I needed the carb up.

When the cut is over, I may try my maintenance eating in these proportions to see if I feel any different at the gym, acclimate to it, get fat, etc. Need to get a glucose test too.
 
Saturday June 28th:

170.8 lbs

30.5 inches on waist

Calories: ~1300

new valleys all around

very weird considering the super high carbs/water/creatine yesterday...

my mid section as actually starting to show...

a lot of comments about how "thin" "ripped" i looked today...
 
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