Good Reason to Start a New Thread

Fausto

Fausto

HST Expert
I'd start right off with the squat:

Difficult to emulate what Ripp writes in his book, but I am pretty sure that amongst all of us something good will come out.
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Getting under the bar:

The bar should be as low as possible and on top of the traps, these would be compressed as the arms should be fairly close to the body and the elbows raised somewhat and behind your body rather than next to it.

Grip - in this case it should be thumbless as the intention is to keep the bar on the shoulders, distance should not be too wide so that the arms help teh traps stay comtracted so as to support the bar.

That out of the way, we talk about distance from the rack, one step, that's it! No more is needed either than to clear the rack so as to avoid bumping.

It is not a good idea to stay too far from the rack specially when fairly heavy squats are being delt with!  Once you have lifted the bar from the rack your body needs to tighten up (Valsava manouvre) - take a breath and hold it in, lift the bar and get into position one step behind the rack.

Stance - This will vary according to the  trainee's height and leg length (some people have long legs/short torso, others long torso/short legs), usually the stance is just wider than shoulder width, but here is where individuallity comes in as well as hamstring flexibility, but generally the guys with longer legs prefer a wider stance, the variety will recruit more or less the hamstring/quad in different ways.

Ok...ok...lifting shoes seems to be the best choice here, according to Ripp this will be the best investment any lifter could do. I have not yet got these so I use a piece of wood 1" thick...no more, some people's flexibility is quite good and they can do it flat footed with a slight wider stance.

The actual squat - After taking a deep breath and holding it in so as to keep intra-abdominal pressure (Valsava manouvre) HEY...VERY IMPORTANT, if you don't do this you will be visiting the physio soon or worst!
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Go down into the hole all the way until your hamstrings touch your calves, that is a deep squat, some people cannot go this deep, but must at least go past parallel, lets just say when the top of your thigh is parallel to the floor, that will be past parallel.

your back must be hyperextended so that your butt is out, and your back ramrod straight...absolutely NO ROUNDING. It must be kept this way right through, it is ok to breathe on top but the breath must be kept in all the way down and only released when you reach the top and you are straight up.

Some guys (power lifters)do not breath until they finished ( rep - 3 reps it depens),but this is not really necessary.

Use a fair amount of speed so as to be ablew to come out thebottom, do not however use any bounce but rather reverse direction and push upwards.

That is it for now...vets please extend this thread with your valuable knowledge.

Cheers
 
Curl test:
To check your curl strength, stand with shoulders and butt touching a wall and perform the curl set without coming off the wall. This is also used in some contests, as it eliminates any cheating whatsoever. The elbows must remain in the beginning position, whatever distance from the wall they begin at. Most guys will have to use a lesser weight than they thought they could "lift".

About elbows. In pressdowns, skullcrushers, curls, french presses, and basically all your bi and tri exersizes, the elbows should remain in place or you're not doing it right, excepting for when you intend to cheat some last reps. Moving the humerus involves the delts and/or lats into the rep.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the elbows should remain in place or you're not doing it right</div>

According to whom?

The biceps help flex the shoulder, the triceps help extend it. In principle, the strongest possible biceps or triceps contraction WOULD involve movement at both the elbow and shoulder. Yes, other stuff will come into play (e.g. shoulders, lats), but trying to truly isolate a muscle is probably pointless anyways.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">your back must be hyperextended so that your butt is out, and your back ramrod straight</div>

It's also worth noting that you probably shouldn't hyperextend your back in any movement. The actual goal in a squat or deadlift is to maintain lumbar/thoracic extension, but that doesn't mean it has to be contracted as much as possible, just that it's not collapsing under load.
 
I think Mikey has highlighted the problem I have with this thread. No offence meant to Fausto but, although I think this thread is a good idea (not sure about the title though??), I think that if the information is going to be of use to others wanting to get a handle on proper form in some important exercises then posters will have to be prepared to go back and edit their posts until their descriptions are optimised (or at least not incorrect, ambiguous or misleading). Without a lot of careful thought it's a bit like opening a can of worms.

My best suggestion, if you are at all serious about your lifting, would be to buy Rippetoe's Starting Strength (2nd Ed. if poss), or another respected text, to help address form issues in various key compound movements along with a good book on human physiology and/or muscle mechanics and the musculoskeletal system. I find good illustrations are extremely helpful in the understanding of how the various muscle groups work together. Just my 2¢.
 
Mikey, I agree with you. The strongest contraction comes when using other muscles to assist the lift. My post was prefaced with &quot;To check your curl strength&quot; and I mentioned that some gym contests have this rigidity as a ruling, isolating the biceps. And I do the same for triceps because when I want to do an iso, I want an iso. My compounds will take care of the other musculature, IMO.
I say, what good is it doing the isolated muscle to help it. That's like a spotter pulling the bar up for you. As Lol indicated, we don't want to get into a pissing contest here, but feel free to disagree. Meanwhile, I'm going for 18's.
 
<div>
(mikeynov @ Feb. 08 2008,23:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">your back must be hyperextended so that your butt is out, and your back ramrod straight</div>

It's also worth noting that you probably shouldn't hyperextend your back in any movement. The actual goal in a squat or deadlift is to maintain lumbar/thoracic extension, but that doesn't mean it has to be contracted as much as possible, just that it's not collapsing under load.</div>
i often see people hyper extending their backs as far as they will go on deads, i look on in dismay. theres no need to do it imo.

good form is paramount, but as you become more experienced you can dabble with the occasional cheat. but cheat in good form lol.
 
Yeah, Mikey, I think I got carried away, not hyperextended, what I meant is that it must be really straight but not overly extended as that too would cause problems.

Well, the whole idea is to teach newbies the best possible form so correction is really welcome.

Of course Lol is right, but many guys aren't gonna bother to buy Rip's book even if we advertise rtill we blue in the face, it is a darn good buy I tell you that !

But why can';t we just appply ourselves and really get to write out some good form theory so that the practice becomes second nature?
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I'm definitely not competent enough to write up on lifting techniques. That's why I haven't started writing on that topic. But it would be really great if you guys could do something in that direction. If I have facts in form of notes, I can put it into readable text. So if you think I could be of any help, let me know. And yes, I'm definitely going to buy Rippetoe's Starting Strength - planned for next week.
 
It's gonna take me a couple months to finish 'Knowledge and Nonsense' with all the other stuff I study. Lady is on my butt again about my 'pooter time too!
I'd like to get that someday because you never know enough, you never know it all and you can always learn more. How come our wimmin can't understand that?
 
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(quadancer @ Feb. 10 2008,08:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How come our wimmin can't understand that?</div>
Brain size?
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Just placed my order for Starting Strength, 2nd edition at Amazon. I look forward to receiving the book.
 
On to the bench press:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The Bench Press is the most popular lift in the gym. It’s the upper-body exercise that lets you lift the most weight. The Bench Press builds upper-body strength like no other exercise.

Unfortunately the Bench Press causes most injuries. Shoulder pain from doing the Bench Press is common. Proper Bench Press technique not only minimizes risks of injury, it’s also key to lifting more weight. This article will help you with the Bench Press technique.

What’s The Bench Press? Lie on an upright support bench or a bench inside a Power Rack. Unrack the weight &amp; lower it to your chest. Press it back up until your arms are locked. You’ve done a Bench Press.

You have several ways to Bench Press by varying grip, grip width, bench angle, etc.

Some Bench Press variations are:

• Close Grip Bench Press. Shoulder width grip. Emphasis triceps.
• Reverse Grip Bench Press. Palms facing you. Also emphasis triceps.
• Incline Bench Press. From an incline bench. Emphasis shoulders.
• Decline Bench Press. From a decline bench. Allows more weight.
• Floor Press. Bench Press while lying on the floor. More triceps.

This article deals with the Bench Press without extreme arching of the back like in Powerlifting.

Benefits of The Bench Press. Why should you Bench Press? Here are two reasons to do the exercise.

• Builds Muscle. Bench Press if you want a big chest. Front Shoulders &amp; triceps work too.
• Builds Strength. The Bench Press is the strength training exercise that lets you lift the most weight using your upper-body muscles.

Bench Press Safety.

Most injuries in the gym happen when doing The Bench Press. One reason is of course because it’s the exercise done the most. Other reasons are not using the following tips.

• No Thumbless Grip. Use your thumbs when doing the Bench Press. You don’t want the bar to slip out of your hands.
• Start Light. Add weight gradually. You’ll get a feeling of what you can &amp; can’t handle while learning proper Bench Press technique.
• Ask Someone to Spot. Spotters will help you if you get stuck with the bar on your chest.

If you don’t have a spotter, read the guide on how to Bench Press safely when you’re
alone.

Bench Press &amp; Shoulders Pain.

Shoulder pain from doing the Bench Press is common.
Switching to dumbbells or quiting the Bench Press avoids pain, but doesn’t solve your shoulder problem. What you should do:

• Improve Technique. If you don’t Bench Press with proper technique you’ll injure yourself sooner or later. Read on.
• Fix Posture. You can’t Bench Press with proper technique if you have slouching shoulders.

Start doing shoulder dislocations. Focus on bringing your chest forward &amp; squeezing your shoulder-blades.

• Avoid Muscle Imbalances. The Bench Press works your front shoulders more than the back ones. If you don’t strengthen these by doing the Barbell Row &amp; Overhead Press, you’ll get a muscle imbalance. Causing bad posture &amp; thus bad Bench Press technique.

Correct Bench Grip:bar in hand palm.

Bench Press Setup. You need a strong base to press the weight from. Tighten your upper-back.
Grip the bar hard: try to break it apart like breaking spaghetti.

• Grip Width. Too narrow &amp; you’ll lose strength. Too wide &amp; the distance the bar travels shortens. Grip width should be about 55-71cm/22-28&amp;#8243; depending on your build. Forearms perpendicular to the floor when the bar touches your chest.
• Gripping the Bar. Secure the bar with your thumbs by rotating your hands in. Put the bar in the palm of your hand, close to your wrist. If you put the bar close to your fingers, you’ll get wrist pain.
• Tight Upper-back. Squeeze your shoulder-blades before getting on the bench. Keep your shoulder-blades back &amp; down at all times like on the picture below.

This gives your body a solid base to press the bar from.

• Chest Up. Don’t allow your chest to go flat or shoulders to roll forward. You’ll lose upperback tightness, losing power &amp; increasing risk of shoulder injury. Keep your chest up at all time.
• Feet. Use a wide foot stance to increase stability on the bench. Feet flat on the floor, weight on the heels, lower leg perpendicular to the floor. This prevents extreme arching of your lower back.

Remember to keep the tight position during the Bench Press from start to finish. Squeeze the bar, keep your upper-back tight &amp; your chest up.

Unrack the weight with straight arms. Bench.

• Bar to Chest. Touch your chest where your forearms are perpendicular to the floor when looking from the side.
• Press in a Straight Line. Don’t look at the bar. Fix a point at the ceiling. Press the bar in a straight line above your chest, not towards your face. Keep the bar above your elbows during the whole lift.

Common Errors.

The following Bench Press errors are either inefficient or potentially dangerous.
Avoid them at all costs.

• Unracking with Bent Arms. Don’t risk the bar falling on your face. Your arms are
strongest when your elbows are locked. Unrack &amp; bring the bar above your chest with
locked elbows.
• Pressing to Your Face. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. Press in a straight line. Fix a point at the ceiling where you want the bar to go. Don’t look at the bar.
• Bending Your Wrists. This will get you wrist pain. Put the bar in the palm of your hand. Close to your wrists, not close to your fingers. Squeeze the bar so it doesn’t move.
• Elbows. Too high is bad for your shoulders. Too low is inefficient. Put your elbows between perpendicular to &amp; parallel with your torso.
• Shoulders Forward. Don’t let your shoulders roll forward. It’s bad posture, bad technique &amp; a guaranteed way to get shoulder injuries. Keep your chest up, shoulder-blades back &amp; down and upper-back tight.
• Glutes off the Bench. This makes the distance the bar travels shorter &amp; thus the Bench Press easier. However it puts pressure on your back, especially when the weight gets heavy.

You’re more stable when your glutes are on the bench. Keep them there.

• Pushing Your Head into The Bench. You’ll injure your neck. Tighten your neck muscles, without pushing your head into the bench.</div>
 
From Ripp's book, some extracts available free:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Barbell Rows
Most people associate rows with machines that place you in a position to do them. The most valuable rowing exercise is the one that makes you assume the position and maintain it throughout the set.

This way, you get the benefit of moving the bar through the whole range of motion, and the stability work involved in holding your back in the right position to do it. As with all beneficial barbell training, the more work you have to do during the exercise, the better the exercise.

Barbell rows start on the floor and end on the floor, each and every rep. The bar does not hang from the arms between reps. Each rep is separated by a breath and a reset of the lower back.
Starting from the floor enables the hamstrings and glutes to help get the bar moving, so that the lats and scapula retractors can finish a heavier weight than they could from a dead hang in the arms. Done this way, the exercise works not only the lats, upper back, and arms – the muscles typically associated with rowing – but the low back and hip extensors as well.

When rowing from the floor, the most critical factor in technique is the position of the
lower back. The lumbar spine must be held in extension, just like it is in a deadlift and for exactly the same reason. A major difference between rows and deadlifts is the fact that the back angle changes as the bar comes off the floor; the knees are already extended and are not really involved much, so the hip extensors contribute to the initial pull from the floor by raising the chest through the locked back, transmitting this force to the bar.

The finish occurs as the elbows bend and slam the bar into the lower ribcage area. The bar will leave the floor from a position directly below the scapulas, just like a deadlift; unlike a deadlift, the back angle will never become vertical, and in fact
will not rise much higher than where it is just after the bar leaves the floor, just above horizontal at the shoulders.

Approach the bar with a deadlift stance, maybe not quite as close; light weights can be pulled through the air to the belly over a curved bar path as you warm up, but as the weight gets heavier standard pulling mechanics will prevail and the bar will operate vertically over the mid-foot as in all heavy pulling exercises. As weight is added, the bar will adjust itself to the correct position over the foot whether you want it to or not. The grip can vary quite a bit, but about the same as the bench press width is perhaps the best place to start.

A hook grip is useful at heavier weights, or straps can be used. Eyes should be fixed on the floor in front of your position a few feet, not looking straight down but also not attempting to look straight forward, which would place the neck in too extended a position.

From the correct stance, take the grip on the bar, take a big breath, raise it from the floor with straight elbows to get it moving, and continue it on up by bending the elbows and slamming the bar into the upper part of the belly. This movement leads with the elbows, and you should think about slamming the elbows into the ceiling. The most important part of the technique of the barbell row is the back position while the bar movement takes place: the spine must be locked into extension, with the chest up and the lower back arched the whole time the bar is moving.

After the bar contacts the belly, it is lowered back to the floor, the air is exhaled and a new breath taken, and the back is reset before each rep. Don’t attempt to hold it against the belly at the top or lower it too slowly; the barbell row is like the deadlift in that the work is intended to be mainly concentric. Since heavier weights will essentially be dropped, bumper plates are good to use for rowing, or use rubber mats under your standard iron plates.

It is interesting that when the bar hits the chest right below the xiphoid process, the humerus lines up across the back with the thickest part of the lats, where the fibers are parallel to the bar and perpendicular to the spine.

A lower strike point on the belly fails to take advantage of this alignment. </div>
 
I have found the easiest way to learn/maintain the neutral position for squats/deads/OHP/etc. is to stand at attention. Basically you are lifting your chest up. Once you are in that position breath deep then tighten your abs like you are going to get punched. There should be no movement of your torso when tightening your abs. Tightening your abs will tighten your erector spinae (the muscles that keep your back straight or bend you over backwards) and support your spine. With the back locked into place its much easier to remember to bend at the hip joint than with the back.
 
I'll be the first to say I just learned I was doing something wrong that may have caused me a problem. I've been concentrating so hard on keeping my spine tight and level for the Pendlay's I was not beginning the lift with the hip flexiors. Pulling purely with my arms may be why my forearm ripped a bit.
Thanx Fausto! I can't wait to do them again...the RIGHT way! Maybe now I can beat my 315 PR!
 
I've been doing rows the wrong way then. I'm glad I bought Rippetoe's Starting Strength, though it will take some time to arrive. I'm really curious whether I've been doing any exercise correctly.
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A Little on spotters, also from Ripp's book:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Spotters
In many gyms around the world, bench pressing is a team activity. The guy on the bench is “doing chest” while the guy standing over his head is working on his traps. It is truly amazing how much weight two guys working together like this can “bench press”.
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It is not an exaggeration to say that most gym claims of big bench presses are exaggerations. If the spotter puts his hands on the bar during the first rep, and keeps them there for the rest of the set, then who lifted what, and why?
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There is a perfectly legitimate place in the weight room for spotters, but it is not in the
middle of someone else’s work set. Spotters should be there for safety, when there is a question of safety. Spotters should not be there to help with a set. Make this your rule in the weight room:

No rep counts that is touched by anybody other than the lifter. No spotter touches any bar that is still moving up. If this rule is followed by you and everyone you train with, all the personal records you set will be honest ones, and you won’t have to slap anybody for interfering with a new personal record. Tell your spotters – and practice it yourself:

spotters stay away from any rep that the lifter might finish alone.

This cannot be overstated: if the numbers written down in your training log are not honest, you have absolutely no way to evaluate the results of your program. This obviously applies to all lifts that customarily require spotters. The bench press has been particularly abused by bad spotters, with the result being inflated gym records and much unwarranted bragging (making a good case for a strength contest that replaces the bench press with the press).

If you let your spotter help you on your work sets, you’ll soon have absolutely no idea what you’re really benching, and no idea if you’re making progress.

Spotters should be there for safety, where a question of safety exists. For everybody except rank novices, the first warm-up sets are not a safety concern and do not require spotters, unless the spotter is also performing a coaching function. As the weight gets heavier, a spot becomes more necessary, some needing one on the last warm-up, until the work sets, where everybody should be spotted because the weight is supposed to be heavy.

Excessive caution, and the insistence that every set be spotted, is inefficient, unnecessary, and bothersome to other people in the gym who are trying to train. But if your gym contains mostly people who can’t be bothered to help you when it is legitimately necessary, you need to find a better gym. Get a spot when you need to, and know when this is.

For the bench press, a competent center spot will suffice for all but the very heaviest
attempts. One of the actual functions of a spotter is the handoff. A good handoff is one of those rare commodities – there are more bad ones than good. A bad handoff interferes with the lifter’s timing, balance, view of the ceiling, and concentration, by attempting to participate in the rep.

A good handoff spotter is experienced and appropriate with the timing and amount of bar contact, respectful of the mental requirements of the lifter, and, above all, conservative about when and how much to help.

An entire chapter could be devoted to the art and science of spotting, and will be someday.

But briefly, the bench press spotter stands behind the head of the lifter, in the center of the bar. This position can be adjusted a little if necessary.</div>
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Feb. 12 2008,20:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'll be the first to say I just learned I was doing something wrong that may have caused me a problem. I've been concentrating so hard on keeping my spine tight and level for the Pendlay's I was not beginning the lift with the hip flexiors. Pulling purely with my arms may be why my forearm ripped a bit.
Thanx Fausto! I can't wait to do them again...the RIGHT way! Maybe now I can beat my 315 PR!</div>
Quad,
If you've tried this I want to get something clear. At the start, when the weight is on the floor, I have to bend the knees quite a bit in order to keep my lower back arched and parallel to the floor. What I'm getting from Fausto's post is that I should start the row by straightening the knees somewhat and bringing my torso slightly up from parallel (hip flexion) and then forcefully pull the elbows back. Am I on the right track? I've only been doing Pendlays (or what I think are Pendlays) for 2 weeks and I have not been doing any hip flexion or knee straightening.
 
I'm not the guy to ask, actually. I've been totally rigid, legs and torso, and at the time of the lift, I just &quot;explode&quot; in place the entire body, pulling only the humerus back. My back has been horizontal the entire lift. I'll be trying this other method for the first time this weekend. For now, I'm still stuck with workouts at work if I even have time.
I only understand this method to mean an initial pull that may not necessarily involve actual movement. It sounds to me like just firing the extensiors and hip flexors first, pulling the load just off the floor without using the arms, or to a lesser extent.

Somebody correct me (us) if I've read this wrong.
 
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