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Quad

basically what Ripp syas is that you must use a hip extension not a knee extension, the knees will still be somehwat bent so as to allow you to have your back straight, but your back will ultimatelly be raised slightly from the parallel position, no cheating though, we're talking about a couple of degrees off the parallel (+/- 10 or so).

Knees will be almost straight, just unlocked, this is to avoid engaging the quads.

As he puts it, start off with the chest up, straight elbows raising the back angle slightly (we're talking about max 10 degrees here) as the bar leaves thefloor, movement is performed with teh hamstrings and glutes acting on the rigid back held in isometric contractionby the erectors.

So..hip extension starts the weight up, elbows catch the momentum and carry the bar up with a shoulder extension and scapula retraction.

The trunk acts as a platform against which ther force is generated, think of your self as a spring that locks in that position and imagine that your trunk locks agai8nst your knees (which it doesn't but I find this image in my mind to work well
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Interesting he says that rows are not useful at weights that are to heavy to maintain form, I completely agree!
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The difference maybe small like 10 kilos, but ultimatelly make all the difference because of its efficacy.

If you end up doing a "cockeyed SLDL", the weight is too heavy and your form sucks for this exercise, reduce and...start again.

I love technicalities
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Obviously this "lecture" is not for quad although initially it may help him understand Ripp's intention, mind you I also did it wrong, I never used to put the bar back onto the floor, I can see Dan smilling off the corner of my eye.

This is a perfect exercise to use MS with.
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Just to note that it IS a "dead" of sorts, and to hang it without putting it down is like parallell squats- more load on the erectors. Unfortunately I can't try them 'till Sunday: I'm going to a PL meet sat, so I'll have to do legs tonight.
I've noticed that the signal you've hit your best is when the trunk has to rise to help pull the weight up in the latter part of the movement. I figure my best is 10lbs under that.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've noticed that the signal you've hit your best is when the trunk has to rise to help pull the weight up in the latter part of the movement. I figure my best is 10lbs under that. </div>

More than the normal 10 - 15 degrees!
 
I tried these according to Ripptoe and didn't like how they felt. It felt like overly cheating, as in this guy's version: http://media.putfile.com/pendley-row--523x5
He's moving some impressive weight, but that's not a Pendlay Row as I understand it.

I went back and reread Pendlay's description after trying Ripptoe's directions and noted the following excerpt: &quot;At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows.&quot; http://stronglifts.com/how-to-....chnique

That's the way I'm going to continue to do them. After all they are called 'Pendlay Rows', not 'Ripptoe Rows'.

BTW, after reading some of Ripptoe's responses to questions at Strengthmill, I'm beginning to think that the guy is a real prick and way too convinced that he knows everything there is to know. The amazing thing is that he treats the people who buy his books like sh*t and they still suck up to him. I was considering buying Starting Strength, but now I'm not sure. There are a lot of other people out there that are just as knowledgeable, and don't talk to people the way Ripptoe does, e.g., John Christy, Dan John, and Charles Staley to name a few who come to mind.
 
The first video is just bullcrap - some kind of dead-jerk or something.
The second one (down the page) is exactly how I do them, but it's confusing that he's talking about the upper back arching, but I don't see it in the vid. He's just as rigid as I am. At least my 315 was honest.
 
I have only found one way to do perfectly strict rows and hammer at the upper mid-back target area...my chest-supported t-bar row. No cheating possible.
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I just can't do standing barbell rows without cheating somehow, my flexibility sucks. Plus, I don't care to work my erectors and hamstrings while rowing, I just want to hit the lats and upper back with these.
 
I don't think it matters where you put the bar within reason, since we're all built a bit different and will have different natural paths in this. The farther up the chest you go, the more you use the arms and lose the lat work, so I'd shoot for the belly myself.
(Unless I'm reading myself wrong, but I've tried both)
That vid was used as an instructional for Pendlays before, but I don't see him using this principle with the initial pull. He llooks like me, using arms and lats only. He sure makes it look easy tho, don't he?
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Head down (ie. looking at the floor) for rows is fine as it helps keep a neutral spine.
 
I tried it today, but had awakened with a really bad crick in my neck that won't go away...even with painkillers and massage. I had to abandon the Pendlays for the T-bar because of it, but for 225's and 275's I couldn't seem to get any upper body &quot;pull&quot; initiating the movement; it all just seems to explode together. It could be because I can't look up today with the neck and all, but I tried.
 
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(EL_VIEJO @ Feb. 16 2008,20:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">http://stronglifts.com/how-to-....chnique</div>
Yup, that's the vid I was looking for. I've been meaning to post it, but have not found the time.

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(Sci @ Feb. 17 2008,01:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
I have only found one way to do perfectly strict rows and hammer at the upper mid-back target area...my chest-supported t-bar row. No cheating possible.
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I just can't do standing barbell rows without cheating somehow, my flexibility sucks. Plus, I don't care to work my erectors and hamstrings while rowing, I just want to hit the lats and upper back with these.

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Yeah, I follow a similar line of reasoning with my prone dumbbell rows. My lower back gets plenty of attention already with squats, deads, good mornings, and RDLs. My gym doesn't have a T-bar row device, so the prone dumbbell rows let me work my upper back and be done: Prone Dumbbel Row.
 
Does anybody know why Ripptoe insists on holding the bar in a low position rather higher up on the traps when squatting? I've tried this position on my last 2 workouts and like it, but I'm not sure what Ripp's rational is. I could ask him myself at strengthmill, but he would probably just bite my head off and tell me that it's explained in his book (which I'm still thinking about buying).
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I watched one of the videos that Rip critiqued where he said ihe guy's squat looked like a 'high bar leg press'. Personally I thought it was a squat with very good form, but Ripptoe has an eye for detail and subtlety that's pretty incredible (or he's just making it up
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). Could it be that the lower bar position forces you to use the posterior chain more? Any comments would be appreciated.
 
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(EL_VIEJO @ Feb. 20 2008,16:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Does anybody know why Ripptoe insists on holding the bar in a low position rather higher up on the traps when squatting? I've tried this position on my last 2 workouts and like it, but I'm not sure what Ripp's rational is. I could ask him myself at strengthmill, but he would probably just bite my head off and tell me that it's explained in his book (which I'm still thinking about buying).
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 I watched one of the videos that Rip critiqued where he said ihe guy's squat looked like a 'high bar leg press'.  Personally I thought it was a squat with very good form, but Ripptoe has an eye for detail and subtlety that's pretty incredible (or he's just making it up
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). Could it be that the lower bar position forces you to use the posterior chain more? Any comments would be appreciated.</div>
Better leverage. Less spinal shearing force than high-bar. Allows heavier weights and thus more total force production for the thighs and hips.
I tried them also and I like squatting much better now. Having a long torso, high-bar squatting is hell on my spine.
 
El_viejo

To me Ripp knowes what he's taklking about as opposed to so many others!

His squat version is till the best and most accomodating IMO!
 
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(scientific muscle @ Feb. 20 2008,17:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Better leverage. Less spinal shearing force than high-bar. Allows heavier weights and thus more total force production for the thighs and hips.
I tried them also and I like squatting much better now. Having a long torso, high-bar squatting is hell on my spine.</div>
Also, the bar goes directly over the middle of your feet with the correct stance. It will take me time to get used to the lower position of the bar, but I'll adjust when I have a squat rack!
 
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(EL_VIEJO @ Feb. 20 2008,17:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">... and tell me that it's explained in his book (which I'm still thinking about buying).</div>
Stop thinking. Start buying.
No really, so many people have recommended this book it simply can't be bad. And if you look through the reviews at Amazon, you know that you're buying one of the best high-quality books on the topic. I've ordered my copy since people recommended it everywhere I went.
 
Gosh...I hate this...now in New Zealand...over at Waikato's unversity gym I see this guy doing a kind of quarter squat...couldn't resist but to ask him who taught you how to squat?

The answer...a guy with a PhD
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...man I nearly burst out laughing
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PhD's don't teach bull? Hell, I have seen dozens doing so, its almost preposterous...hey no offense to those guys here with one (Pierre Debs comes to mind), I haven't seen one here blaringly trying to BS us...so, its all good!

Just goes to show...Ripp's book is an essential to anyone's collection IMO
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(Fausto @ Feb. 27 2008,16:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">...now in New Zealand...over at Waikato's unversity gym</div>
So, are you moved now -- all settled in? That can't be an easy adjustment. English-speaking or not (and Kiwis all seem to talk sideways...) you've gotta be suffering from some sort of culture shock.

Good luck with all the changes. You got out while the getting was good...!
 
Tunnel, thanks

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So, are you moved now -- all settled in? That can't be an easy adjustment. English-speaking or not (and Kiwis all seem to talk sideways...) you've gotta be suffering from some sort of culture shock.</div>

Not quite...family's got to follow, still have to do the residence thing finished but will get there.

Sideways's fine for now as long as it is English, not any longer, some family rescued me...lent me a car...I'm good, all I need is another job then I am on my way to settling in!
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Thnaks for caring, mate really appreciate it!
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(Fausto @ Feb. 27 2008,18:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The answer...a guy with a PhD</div>

My next question would have been: with a PhD in what?

Man, moving to another country just like that is tough. I know it from my own experience. Now, moving with a family is even tougher. I wish you all the best and that you get started without the usual and intolerable immigration idiots, uh, officers.
 
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