Health Effects of Overreating

[TightHandlez6]

I know this may sound as a bit of a stupid question, but constantly eating over 500-700 calories and feeling full at each meal sometimes makes me wonder if this overeating constantyl, even though you are exercising properly and doing weight training, is healthy for your body. I would jsut like to know if anybody knows more about the topic or if any studies have been done regarding this. Thank you in advance for your help guys.

 

[psychonaut]

this is something thats been bothering me slightly too.

I was under the impression that leaving the table slightly hungry was a secret to longevity, and without having any evidence im prepared to admit that it sounds very plausible.

But does the thought of a decade or so taken off my life put me off my training?

no chance!!

 

[micmic]

Yeah, overeating is bad for longevity, and it doesn't have anything to do with hunger or metabolism. It has to do with the absolute amount of calories ingested. As you may understand, it is difficult to conduct studies with humans, but all indications point to the fact that what dieters refer to as 'shutting off your metabolism by eating too few calories', is actually also prolonging your life span. In a simplistic way, it goes like this: Less food => less work for the organs + less by-products (free radicals etc) => less total damage.

 

[psychonaut]

Would it follow that by optimizing anti-oxidant intake and so on you could compensate for most of the ill effect?

perhaps it might be worth getting hold of some hydergine. im not really into supplements but something billed as an anti - aging drug is very tempting, + certain other members of the ergot family have given me a great deal of fun

 

[micmic]

Antioxidants and supplements in general could help, only we can't be sure about it. One should have to take a combination of them, like vit. E, vit. C, a-lipoic acid, anthocyanidins, Co-Q10 etc. For example, look at what this guy takes (or at least allegates so).

But I believe that our future as far as longevity is concerned will not come through supplements or food but through genetic engineering. Then we'll have to find a way to control earth population until we can colonize other planets.

 

[Dianabol]

This is perhaps an interesting post.
We must bear in mind that life-extension and muscle hypertrophy is perhaps, diametrically opposed.
The former recommends a protocol of anti-oxidants (to minimize cellular damage) and caloric deprivation to extend life (although only done in rats, it is assumed that the same should occur in human beings). The latter demands a protocol of microtrauma (which is impeded by intake of anti-oxidants) and caloric overload (which can lead to obesity and other ills).
But we musn't be simplistic in either of these approaches. In both instances, body composition is of essence. And thus, for the life extensionist, 9% bodyfat at 150lbs is ideal while for the bodybuilder, 9% bodyfat at 250lbs is ideal. Which scenario is better? It all depends on how such a bodyweight is reached and maintained.
Furthermore, do I train with correct form, or am I thrashing my body each time I go to the gym? The food I eat, are they bereft of hormones, chemicals, anti-biotics and all such toxic substances? My habitat - is it stress-free or do I take two guns to bed each time I sleep, just in case? The air that I breathe - does it make better sense to start smoking because it would be healthier to breathe through the cigarette filter and at least know what I'm getting out of the cigarette? The water I drink - should it be filtered then further sanitized with a good dose of ethanol (this is commercially sold as vodka, or gin, or anything equivalent) just to make sure?
The easier way out is to be a life extensionist, because really, if you consider what it takes to qualify as a life extensionist (have a look at www.lef.org - you need not buy their supplements...), and compare that to what it takes to qualify as a bodybuilder, being a bodybuilder requires so much more discipline than a life extensionist (LE).
I am not putting down the LEs in any way. There will come a time we would retire from bodybuilding and would then embrace a LE-type lifestyle, if it's not too late. For now, the goal is more muscle, to the point we would do anything it takes to reach that goal, even if it might mean taking risks with our health. And that's the sad fact of bodybuilding - pro-bodybuilding at least. None of these guys (or gals) on stage are healthy. They just look good, but have more steroids than blood coursing through their blood vessels and are at high risk of premature death simply due to their extreme pre-contest dieting and obscene amounts of drugs used to get them where they are.
From a short commentary it has become something of a rant, but hey, it was fun.
Godspeed, and happy HSTing

 

[savagebeast]

Exercise is healthy. Exercise makes you eat more. We don't eat enough to become obese (which would be unhealthy), we simply eat a little a little more than maintenance. It seems to me that eating a little more than maintenance calories is not the same thing as eating a lot more than maintenance calories, a.k.a. enough to make you obese. I would guess that the effects of eating a little over maintenance calories, if any, would be negligible. This is just a guess, though.

TightHandlez6, maybe you already do this, but you would probably find it easier to get your calories in if you ate 5 or 6 meals per day. That way you wouldn't have to stuff yourself at each meal. I think I've heard that this is better anyways, and won't lead to as much fat storage. Also, you could probably find some good tricks for getting extra calories in your diet in this forum.

Now for a question of my own: what is the ideal body fat % for "life extension"? Maybe it's more a question of the ideal Fat Body Mass. I don't know if this is a real term or not, but what I mean is the opposite of Lean Body Mass. Does such an answer even exist, or does it vary from person to person?

 

[micmic]

Yes, exercise is healthy, but when done in moderation. Bodybuilding is far from it. Those guys we see at the gym not trying really hard, not having changed their physique during the last 10 years, those guys that we tend to ridicule because we think they haven't achieved anything, they are actually much closer to the life-extending idea of exercise (whether they know it or not).

Sometimes I think that martial arts training is pretty close to the ideal exercise. If we could eliminate possible injuries, 2-3 hours per week would be perfect. Together with 1-2 hours of moderate intensity weight training per week, it is my idea of the perfect exercise regimen for longevity. Those who have done some martial art know that the feeling you get after training can't be compared to weights or aerobics. You feel full of energy, like you could fly.

savagebeast, I'm not comparing obese to normal. I compare normal people to those who have lowered their maintenance level by continuously eating low calories. There are indications that this may increase their life span.

As for the ideal LE bodyfat it probably varies, but I would be surprised if it were outside the 8-13% range (for men).

As a side note, I find it unfortunate that our society uses top athletes and champions as a paradigm and motivation for young people. Top athletes are more often than not less healthy than the average person. So, we have the phenomenon of 18 year old non-menstruating anorexic girls training 6 hours per day in order to excel at the next triathlon event, and actually thinking they are following a healthy lifestyle. Or parents depriving their children of food during their puberty because their gymnastics coach told them they shouldn't put on more weight if they are to be included in the team. These things are crimes.

So, we have actually a society where most people are obese couch potatoes but the few who exercise have no idea of what 'moderation' is. No room for normal, reasonable and modest persons

 

[Scott S]

*bump*

My bodybuilding heroes (Grimek, Park, Reeves, Pearl, and the like) have all lived into their 70's, which is plenty long for me. Without dredging up the quality vs length of life debate, it doesn't seem like carrying around a lot of extra muscle really hurt the old-timers in the life-expectancy department.

Which may not be applicable to *me*, but oh well.

 

[Coyote]

test animals live shortest to longest in this order:
Ad Libitum feeding + no exersise = shortest lived
Ad Libitum feeding + exersise = second shortest
Caloric restriction + exersise = second longest
Caloric restriction + no exersise = longest lived

p.s.: 70's, aint sh*t , try 150's (seriously)

http://imminst.org/forum....77&st=0

 

[imported_edziu]

Bear in mind that bodybuilders also spend a lot of time in caloric restriction to achieve low bodyfats.

If you ONLY eat to get big, and let your bodyfat stay high, don't expect the same results.

 

[restless]

There were a few other treads on this that are an interesting read.

There was one study that I posted a link to that showed similar effects to calorie restriction when using an alternated overfeeding/fasting aproach.

Personally, I'm convinced that bodybuilders (although we're possibly better off than sedentary folks that eat crap all day) don't have the best life style in what concerns longevity.

Basicaly I agree with micmic.

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (Coyote @ Dec. 07 2003,8:49)]p.s.: 70's, aint sh*t , try 150's (seriously)

70 is ok considering hte average lifespan.

But until humans actually get up to the higher reaches, everything in terms of caloric restriction is guestimates.

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 08 2003,3:00)]But until humans actually get up to the higher reaches, everything in terms of caloric restriction is guestimates.

Which doesn't mean all this info should be disregarded, after all, if you actually wait one average human life span for the results of an experiment in humans, which I don't even know if it was started yet, you won't rip any of the benefits, will you?

 

[Scott S]

Coyote: dang, that's a long post/convo!

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (restless @ Dec. 10 2003,10:15)]Which doesn't mean all this info should be disregarded, after all, if you actually wait one average human life span for the results of an experiment in humans, which I don't even know if it was started yet, you won't rip any of the benefits, will you?

THe results from primates do not seem anywhere near as impressive as the results in other animals

I would rather die young than starve thru a longer time period

or worse, spend most of my life starving, only to get hit by a car

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 10 2003,11:11)]THe results from primates do not seem anywhere near as impressive as the results in other animals

Any links to this? I'd like to check them out, if you have any.

 

[spartacus]

Quote[/b] (restless @ Dec. 11 2003,4:31)]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Dec. 10 2003,11:11)]THe results from primates do not seem anywhere near as impressive as the results in other animals

Any links to this? I'd like to check them out, if you have any.

also humans already live quite a bit longer than we should given our size/metabolic rate, even compared to other primates.

pure speculation: could be due to evolutionary benefit of older humans to a clan becuase of the knowlege and leadership they would have provided, so perhpas "life extention" is already built in.

 

[Future Mutant]

In regards to what Restless said about undereating and overeating, there is a diet based on this called the Warrior Diet, which I am on right now.

Basically you only eat a couple of pieces of fruit during the day and then you eat an enormous meal at night (with certain guidelines).

Rats fed similarly well outlived their calorie controlled counterparts.

I lost 35 pounds and got my bodyfat down to 10.5% from about 26% in May, lost 6.5 inches off my waist.

Now that my fat is down, I just started working on building some muscle.

This diet has mixed reviews as far as fat loss and adding muscle mass but it has worked for me and I am convinced that I working at an increased life span.

 

[Kiharan]

Keep us posted on your results as you work to add muscle mass. I tried the warrior diet for a while, and adjusted to it pretty well as a maintenance diet, but haven't tried it during HST.