RainierWolfcastle
New Member
Do you need to just smell the capsules to get shredded overnight, or do you need to take 50 on the hour to get slightly thinner in 6 months.
Rainier.
Rainier.
How pronounced are the effects of CLA
- Thread starter RainierWolfcastle
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El_Machinae
New Member
I'm guessing it's some unpleasant in-between ground. You know, one of those supplements where you include it in your regimen, and then when you see gains, you have no idea what to attribute the gains to ....
It's going to take about 6-10 grams per day. This must also become part of the daily routine. THe CLA must be incorporated into fat cells. Unfortunately, the CLA is preferentially burn as it enters the liver. SO you have to take enough to not only let the liver burn some, but also have enough to get into circulation and be deposisted into fat cells.
Regular use of CLA will change your "tendancy" to gain and lose fat. It will basically make your fat cells act as if you had a genetic predisposition to leanness. The mechanism is pretty interesting. I think I posted a little bit of it in another thread.
Regular use of CLA will change your "tendancy" to gain and lose fat. It will basically make your fat cells act as if you had a genetic predisposition to leanness. The mechanism is pretty interesting. I think I posted a little bit of it in another thread.
El_Machinae
New Member
Sounds like you'd want to take this about an hour after supper? That way you're full, and your energy stores will be already up to snuff. Maybe take it with some low GI food, so that the insulin would protect it from the liver?
Well, I guess the meal timing would depend on how you ate regularily. But post-meal sounds like it would be best.
Well, I guess the meal timing would depend on how you ate regularily. But post-meal sounds like it would be best.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bryan Haycock @ May 06 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">THe CLA must be incorporated into fat cells. Unfortunately, the CLA is preferentially burn as it enters the liver. SO you have to take enough to not only let the liver burn some, but also have enough to get into circulation and be deposisted into fat cells.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Based on this if you were to incorporate CLA into your regimen would it be best to start taking it during your bulking/maintanance cycle? That way since you are hypercaloirc there is a better chance of it to be stored (incorporated) into the fat cells.
Based on this if you were to incorporate CLA into your regimen would it be best to start taking it during your bulking/maintanance cycle? That way since you are hypercaloirc there is a better chance of it to be stored (incorporated) into the fat cells.
virtualcyber
New Member
My guess is that it would be good to take all 6-10 g
on one sitting, on empty stomach, so that the liver
won't have chance to metabolize them.
Or is that logic screwed up?
on one sitting, on empty stomach, so that the liver
won't have chance to metabolize them.
Or is that logic screwed up?
RainierWolfcastle
New Member
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">THe CLA must be incorporated into fat cells. Unfortunately, the CLA is preferentially burn as it enters the liver. SO you have to take enough to not only let the liver burn some, but also have enough to get into circulation and be deposisted into fat cells.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Does this mean it is best to take CLA when bulking up ?
Rainier
Does this mean it is best to take CLA when bulking up ?
Rainier
If you use CLA while bulking it may help nutrient partitioning. CLA and Omega-3s should be taken "all" the time. They aren't supplements that you take every now and then. It has to be constant so that they can have time to change the environment within the body. This only happens as their levels build up in fat cells.
All I could suggest is to take it with carbs. The rise in insulin may prevent the immediate oxidation of the CLA, and enhance the delivery of CLA to subcutaneous fat cells.
This may not seem like a "good" thing at first, I mean the delivery of fat to fat cells. But CLA and Omega-3s, once in fat cells, activate PPARs. This is good, and is what leads to the change in body composition over time.
This may not seem like a "good" thing at first, I mean the delivery of fat to fat cells. But CLA and Omega-3s, once in fat cells, activate PPARs. This is good, and is what leads to the change in body composition over time.
Thanks for the feedback, Bryan!
Unfortunately, I always have another question. If you are adding carbs to your post-lifting Driver, would it be a good idea to add CLA, too, and maybe "piggy-back" on those carbs?
(I asking because for those of us who are gradually ratcheting down carbs during an HST cycle, this might be the largest influx of carbs we experience during the day.)
As far as I can tell, this probably would just slow the absorption of the Driver proteins further -- which wouldn't be a disaster.
Unfortunately, I always have another question. If you are adding carbs to your post-lifting Driver, would it be a good idea to add CLA, too, and maybe "piggy-back" on those carbs?
(I asking because for those of us who are gradually ratcheting down carbs during an HST cycle, this might be the largest influx of carbs we experience during the day.)
As far as I can tell, this probably would just slow the absorption of the Driver proteins further -- which wouldn't be a disaster.
You absolutely could, But I would suggest you wait. There is some interesting research on protein coming out that indicates that when you add carbs to your protein, more of it gets "trapped" (incorporated into gut proteins and/or oxidized in the gut and liver) in the gut. This is because of the anabolic effect of insulin on enterocytes. Insulin isn't really anabolic in skeletal muscle but it helps nonetheless.
Anyway, my point is this, Take your protein without carbs immediately after you workout. This will allow more amino acids to skirt past your enterocytes and liver and make it into the blood stream where they are taken up by skeletal muscle. Then take your carbs one hour later, which still allows you to take advantage of the metabolic "window" post workout.
Take the CLA with the carbs.
Anyway, my point is this, Take your protein without carbs immediately after you workout. This will allow more amino acids to skirt past your enterocytes and liver and make it into the blood stream where they are taken up by skeletal muscle. Then take your carbs one hour later, which still allows you to take advantage of the metabolic "window" post workout.
Take the CLA with the carbs.
Thanks again Bryan!
Bryan's probably seen this, but for the rest of us this is a summary of an interesting CLA study. The implications are right in line with Bryan's dosing recommendations: you need around 7g or more CLA to get the fat loss and lean mass gains.
Cut Fat, Maintain Muscle Mass
by Edmund R. Burke, Ph.D.
Study results published in The Journal of Nutrition conclude that the dietary supplement conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), has been shown to reduce body fat in overweight humans. The results are from the largest study, which was double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled, and which confirms previous findings from human studies showing that CLA improved body composition by reducing body fat and promoting lean muscle growth. This study was conducted at Scandinavian Clinical Research, Kjeller, Norway. Sixty overweight people were randomly administered either a placebo or CLA for 12 weeks to determine the effects of different doses of CLA, from 1.7 grams to 6.8 grams, compared with a placebo. Study participants were given the option to undertake light exercise and moderate their food intake. Results showed that 3.4 grams of CLA daily provided CLA's beneficial effects on lowering body fat percentage. Participants who received 6.8 grams daily, the highest dose, compounded the results with a slight increase in lean muscle mass. According to study co-author Jan Wadstein, MD, Ph.D., Lund University in Sweden, "CLA may be a valuable weight management supplement to any diet regime. Keeping lean body mass and speeding up fat loss are the keys to a successful weight loss program. We are encouraged by our findings and are involved in further research on CLA's ability to expedite fat loss and preserve muscle mass."
Journal of Nutrition. 2000;130:2943-2948.
Bryan's probably seen this, but for the rest of us this is a summary of an interesting CLA study. The implications are right in line with Bryan's dosing recommendations: you need around 7g or more CLA to get the fat loss and lean mass gains.
Cut Fat, Maintain Muscle Mass
by Edmund R. Burke, Ph.D.
Study results published in The Journal of Nutrition conclude that the dietary supplement conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), has been shown to reduce body fat in overweight humans. The results are from the largest study, which was double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled, and which confirms previous findings from human studies showing that CLA improved body composition by reducing body fat and promoting lean muscle growth. This study was conducted at Scandinavian Clinical Research, Kjeller, Norway. Sixty overweight people were randomly administered either a placebo or CLA for 12 weeks to determine the effects of different doses of CLA, from 1.7 grams to 6.8 grams, compared with a placebo. Study participants were given the option to undertake light exercise and moderate their food intake. Results showed that 3.4 grams of CLA daily provided CLA's beneficial effects on lowering body fat percentage. Participants who received 6.8 grams daily, the highest dose, compounded the results with a slight increase in lean muscle mass. According to study co-author Jan Wadstein, MD, Ph.D., Lund University in Sweden, "CLA may be a valuable weight management supplement to any diet regime. Keeping lean body mass and speeding up fat loss are the keys to a successful weight loss program. We are encouraged by our findings and are involved in further research on CLA's ability to expedite fat loss and preserve muscle mass."
Journal of Nutrition. 2000;130:2943-2948.
El_Machinae
New Member
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bryan Haycock @ May 08 2002,4:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is some interesting research on protein coming out that indicates that when you add carbs to your protein, more of it gets "trapped" (incorporated into gut proteins and/or oxidized in the gut and liver) in the gut[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You'll excuse me if I now swear like a sailor and smash my computer? I've been putting carbs with protein because so many people recommend that. It always made sense to me to get the carbs when the aminos would be in the blood, but I've been shouted down (er, typed down, I guess) so much that I finally believed people. Grrrrr.
You'll excuse me if I now swear like a sailor and smash my computer? I've been putting carbs with protein because so many people recommend that. It always made sense to me to get the carbs when the aminos would be in the blood, but I've been shouted down (er, typed down, I guess) so much that I finally believed people. Grrrrr.