HSN considers making prohormone

Discussion in 'Anything and Everything about dietary supplements' started by Bryan Haycock, Aug 21, 2002.

  1. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator

    Let me know what "you" want. If you tell me you want a legal, safe, prohormone product as part of the HSN line up, you must speak up now!
     
  2. Lester Long

    Lester Long New Member

    Bryan:

    I had great luck with Patrick's 1-AD in an experiment conducted by Jason at anabolicextreme.com. You might want to check the back issues of their ezine to see how the other 4 or 5 participants fared.

    The biggest issue with 1-AD, and I told Pat this, is the expense. It's more expensive than steroids.

    Regards,
    Lester
     
  3. Blood&Iron

    Blood&Iron New Member

    Well, from the available feedback I've seen so far, 1-AD tends to be better than 1-test orally, although there is a fair amount of positive feedback on Molecular Nutrition's Ethergels.  Many who have experimented with 1-AD topically--including Pat Arnold--claim that it's not all that effective so that's not probably the best ida. *Properly forumulated* topical 1-test products are very good--I say this both having read feedback, and having used Avant Labs' product myself for about 2 weeks.  So if you were going to produce a topical, 1-test would probably be the way to go(Maybe with 4-AD, although it's probably better to let people choose to add that on their own).  Only problem is the inconvience of applying it, and the fact  that 1-test is fairly irritating--I always would smear it in my eyes by accident which was not fun.  Pat Arnold claims to have developed a 'magic' burn free 1-test that might help here.
     
  4. virtualcyber

    virtualcyber New Member

    If you decide to sell a variation of 1-test, I hope you make it for oral administration. It is much more convenient than topical ones.

    I also hope that you make something with a long half-life Something like ethergel. For instance, the half life of 1-AD is short, which means one has to take high dose (~ 900 mg /daily). This causes "uneven" distribution of the plasma drug concentration as a function of time, which cannot be good for your body.
     
  5. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    I agree with virtualcyber in that if you find a way to extend the half-life of 1-AD, it would run the market. Cost of 1-AD is an issue, but if it is the best, I'll cough up the cash.
    BIZ [​IMG]
     
  6. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    I'd say this is a worthwhile pursuit, but you're positioning yourself strongly against the grain of popular opinion on androgens. For a fledling business, this could be risky.

    If I were making an androgen, I'd probably want something with the highest possible benefit/cost ratio, leaning towards a very low potential cost. Ie if a-1-e has more of an inhibitory effect on one's testosterone levels, I'd consider going with 4-ad to be on the conservative side.

    Also, consider selling compensatory supplements with the pro-hormone to offset side effects, ala some pro-testosterone and anti-estrogenic formulation to help you when you come off (like Biotest suggests buying the Tribex/M combo). If this were all part of one package, you'd provide the only complete pro-hormone solution I'm aware of.
     
  7. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    Also, you've always said that you were 'natural' and hadn't experimented with anything illegal. Have you used any of the pro-hormones that you're thinking of buying?
     
  8. Lil Popa Pump

    Lil Popa Pump New Member

    Are you guys convinced oral PHs are better than a topical?

    I have never used an oral but have had success with topical 4-AD. The reviews I have read for orals are mixed at best.

    I would like to see a topical consisting of 4-AD with 1-AD or 1-T.
     
  9. If you want to really make some money, find something that works that would be legal to sell in Canada. All of the other prohormones sold in the U.S. are illegal here, so if you can find a loophole in the Health Canada regulation you've got an untapped market of 30 milliion people. Seriously.

    Imagine walking into a GNC and seeing nothing but Methoxy products and protein powder, and little else. Welcome to your friends up North.





    d.
     
  10. Jon Stark

    Jon Stark New Member

    dahammel, it'll get that bad here soon. guaranteed. ephedra is an issue in the CA gubernatorial election right now -- both candidates arguing about who is the stronger "protector" of the public's health (ie, who supports more regulation).

    bryan, i have no informed opinion on this, since i haven't used prohormones or even bothered to research them. but i'll certainly be curious to see what you come up with. (and if it doesn't give me boobs, i'll probably end up trying it.)
     
  11. Ecto Jim

    Ecto Jim New Member

    I've fantasized (hey, being an ectomorph sucks! ;) ) about taking PHs or gear, but always get scared off by things like prostate enlargement, cholesterol increases, etc. ... I can't offer advice on specifics, but I'd love to see something "safe", even at the expense of relative effectiveness.

    Ecto Jim
     
  12. marcus

    marcus New Member

    IMO, one 1-test product and one 4-AD product would be optimally, since it would allow you to freely mix and match as you please. If I were to choose only one product, it would be a 1-test/4-AD-stack - basically the best of both worlds.
     
  13. Par Deus

    Par Deus New Member

    There are probably 20+ different 1-test products on the market now.

    Unless you can come up with something truly different (a cost-effective oral comes to mind), it will just get lost amongst companies with much bigger marketing budgets.

    You have something at your disposal that most companies do not -- namely, a good mind -- use that :)
     
  14. CrazyCooter

    CrazyCooter New Member

    I have used Patrick's 1-AD as well, had good success with it on a crappy diet.....have not tried any others.
     
  15. BIZ

    BIZ New Member

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posted on Aug. 21 2002,5:55
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Also, you've always said that you were 'natural' and hadn't experimented with anything illegal. Have you used any of the pro-hormones that you're thinking of buying?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Are you asking Bryan or one of us? Don't want to answer a ? not directed towards me. Sorry.
     
  16. Muscle Monthly

    Muscle Monthly New Member

    1) Ok, we know that the topical 4-AD sprays works well and fulfills the long acting, anabolic portion, of a prohormone cycle very nicely.

    2) We also know that 1-AD is a very androgenic leading to very good strength gains and muscle hardness. 1-AD also has the unique characteristic of being orally active. This is why Pat arnold did not bother making a topical 1-AD formula.

    3) I think that Pat would be the first to tell you that 1-test would be superior to 1-AD if it was not for the oral bioavailability issue. The logical alternative would be a topical 1-test formula. The last thing that I read about Pat's opinion of 1-test products was that the reason that he has not introduced 1-test is due to the fact that nobody can manufacture it without contamination of the product with illegal steroid byproducts. He is concerned that these products are, in fact, illegal because of this and may lead to problems with the whole prohormone industry. His opinions on this may have recently changed though, not sure. Obviously, he would have the most to loose by pushing the envelope with a grey area compound.

    I'm not sure about the feedback from the Avant 1-test topical formula, but 1-AD seems to be liked by everyone who uses it, sense the initial burning problems of the original batch (1-dione). Maybe Par Deus can tell us if people are liking it better than 1-AD?

    4) Lastly, I know that Mag 10 was formulated by Bill Roberts who I had a tremendous amount of respect for when he was writing for Meso, however the feedback on Mag 10 has not been nearly as positive as 1-AD, leading me to believe that the oral activity of the 4-androstene-3, 17-diethyl-carbonate ester and 1-androstene-3-one-17-ethylcarbonate ester formula is not all it is cut out to be.

    5) I think that the scienece behind the new 6-OXO compound that Pat is coming out with is intriguing. Anything that can help reduce estrogen and raise LH levels would be a welcome addition to any prohormone/AAS cycle.

    Conclusion:

    -A topical formula containing: 4-Diol and 1-Test would probably be the way to go, assuming that 1-test is legal to manufacture, without contamination.

    -If not, then two seperate products: a topical 4-Diol product combined with an oral 1-AD product would be the way to go. This combination has produced great results for everyone who tries it.

    -Lastly, I think Pat's new 6-OXO product may end up being a useful addition to either of the two options listed above. However, I'm not sure if the fellas at LPJ will be making this available to companies like HSN. I would like to see Bryan get together with Pat and discuss the possibilities availabe to him, as I have a lot of respect for both of them. They are two very honest/brilliant individuals.
     
  17. Muscle Monthly

    Muscle Monthly New Member

  18. Predator

    Predator New Member

    from whati hear there are gonna be some good prosteroids coming out, id look into those Pat Arnold and Par will probably know the most about them
     
  19. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Is there actually any literature that will link theory with results (not anecdotal), or are they still stuck with the andro estrogen articles?
     
  20. Jon Stark

    Jon Stark New Member

    i'm totally new to the prohormone &quot;scene&quot;... did a little reading and saw a claim that 19-nor-4-androstenediol is more anabolic (and less androgenic) than the straight test precursors. More muscle, but your sex drive goes to zero.

    is this bad information? nor-diols don't seem that popular (given the relatively few products available).
     

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