HST and supersetting
- Thread starter ChuckGrill
- Start date
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(robefc @ Jul. 30 2006,06:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(berserk @ Jul. 26 2006,18:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm actually about to do some time tests to find different ways of doing my workout using supersets. I will trial things like doing 2 reps of chins / 2 reps of shoulder press / repeat with no rest . . .instead of doing more consequtive reps. I wonder which method is the most time efficient?</div>
I'm doing something similar, although this has come about because I'm working out max-stim style.
So for bis and tris I will do right arm conc curl, left arm conc curl, right arm db extension, left arm db extension, repeat 19 times!
I would like to dops and chins like this but it would only work if I dipped and chinned the same weight which I don't.
If I was working out with conventional sets than I would just alternate sets...otherwise you're basically turning it into a max-stim style set.
Cheers
Rob</div>
Doing one bi curl rep, then a tri extension rep, then back to a bi rep, etc. seems a bit time-inefficient since it takes quite a bit of relative time to change postions, put the dummbell down and pick it up again, etc. I suppose it's not too bad with dummbells like that but imagine doing a rep of bench press, a rep of seated row, a rep of bench press, etc - you would spend so much time moving between the two work stations.
As for supersetting the dips with chins, why would it matter if using different absolute loads? So long as the load is the same approximate rep-max for both exercises it will be fine. But I'm guessing your point is that if you have to change the weights on your belt it becomes time-consuming and that's what we're talking about.
(robefc @ Jul. 30 2006,06:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(berserk @ Jul. 26 2006,18:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm actually about to do some time tests to find different ways of doing my workout using supersets. I will trial things like doing 2 reps of chins / 2 reps of shoulder press / repeat with no rest . . .instead of doing more consequtive reps. I wonder which method is the most time efficient?</div>
I'm doing something similar, although this has come about because I'm working out max-stim style.
So for bis and tris I will do right arm conc curl, left arm conc curl, right arm db extension, left arm db extension, repeat 19 times!
I would like to dops and chins like this but it would only work if I dipped and chinned the same weight which I don't.
If I was working out with conventional sets than I would just alternate sets...otherwise you're basically turning it into a max-stim style set.
Cheers
Rob</div>
Doing one bi curl rep, then a tri extension rep, then back to a bi rep, etc. seems a bit time-inefficient since it takes quite a bit of relative time to change postions, put the dummbell down and pick it up again, etc. I suppose it's not too bad with dummbells like that but imagine doing a rep of bench press, a rep of seated row, a rep of bench press, etc - you would spend so much time moving between the two work stations.
As for supersetting the dips with chins, why would it matter if using different absolute loads? So long as the load is the same approximate rep-max for both exercises it will be fine. But I'm guessing your point is that if you have to change the weights on your belt it becomes time-consuming and that's what we're talking about.
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(berserk @ Jul. 30 2006,14:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Doing one bi curl rep, then a tri extension rep, then back to a bi rep, etc. seems a bit time-inefficient since it takes quite a bit of relative time to change postions, put the dummbell down and pick it up again, etc. I suppose it's not too bad with dummbells like that but imagine doing a rep of bench press, a rep of seated row, a rep of bench press, etc - you would spend so much time moving between the two work stations.
As for supersetting the dips with chins, why would it matter if using different absolute loads? So long as the load is the same approximate rep-max for both exercises it will be fine. But I'm guessing your point is that if you have to change the weights on your belt it becomes time-consuming and that's what we're talking about.</div>
With conventional sets I agree with you re: curls/extensions. However with max stim I would be putting the weight down between reps for ~5 seconds so it's more time efficient to use that time to do a rep of the different exercise.
Obviously if using 2 different bits of equipment it would be a hige waste of time.
Yep -with the dips and chins wherever I am in the cycle I use different weights on my dip belt so supersetting reps is a no-no.
Again doing conventional sets I would superset these exercises. Well until the post 5s anyway!
Cheers
Rob
(berserk @ Jul. 30 2006,14:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Doing one bi curl rep, then a tri extension rep, then back to a bi rep, etc. seems a bit time-inefficient since it takes quite a bit of relative time to change postions, put the dummbell down and pick it up again, etc. I suppose it's not too bad with dummbells like that but imagine doing a rep of bench press, a rep of seated row, a rep of bench press, etc - you would spend so much time moving between the two work stations.
As for supersetting the dips with chins, why would it matter if using different absolute loads? So long as the load is the same approximate rep-max for both exercises it will be fine. But I'm guessing your point is that if you have to change the weights on your belt it becomes time-consuming and that's what we're talking about.</div>
With conventional sets I agree with you re: curls/extensions. However with max stim I would be putting the weight down between reps for ~5 seconds so it's more time efficient to use that time to do a rep of the different exercise.
Obviously if using 2 different bits of equipment it would be a hige waste of time.
Yep -with the dips and chins wherever I am in the cycle I use different weights on my dip belt so supersetting reps is a no-no.
Again doing conventional sets I would superset these exercises. Well until the post 5s anyway!
Cheers
Rob
Fausto
HST Expert
Supersetting reps! That's madness!
Supersetting works best when doing two different exercises that either complement each other or are precise opposites (like biceps/triceps) one after the other without rest.
To go and do a superset for each rep bacause you are doing max-stim is robbing yourself of gains and inputting a lot of frustration with subsequent loss of gains.
just my 2 cents worth!
Supersetting works best when doing two different exercises that either complement each other or are precise opposites (like biceps/triceps) one after the other without rest.
To go and do a superset for each rep bacause you are doing max-stim is robbing yourself of gains and inputting a lot of frustration with subsequent loss of gains.
just my 2 cents worth!
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(Fausto @ Jul. 31 2006,08:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">To go and do a superset for each rep bacause you are doing max-stim is robbing yourself of gains and inputting a lot of frustration with subsequent loss of gains.
just my 2 cents worth!
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Hi mate,
Your 2 cents always appreciated! Although on this occasion I have to disagree with you...
Firstly I am only talking about bis & tris just to be clear.
I can either do 1 rep of dumbbell curls, put them down, pick them up, do another rep. Complete a set of 20 max-stim style and then repeat for 1 arm db extensions.
Or I can utilise the rest time to do the 1 arm extensions and therefore halve the time it takes me to do bis and tris.
How is that going to rob me of gains?
Cheers
Rob
(Fausto @ Jul. 31 2006,08:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">To go and do a superset for each rep bacause you are doing max-stim is robbing yourself of gains and inputting a lot of frustration with subsequent loss of gains.
just my 2 cents worth!
Hi mate,
Your 2 cents always appreciated! Although on this occasion I have to disagree with you...
Firstly I am only talking about bis & tris just to be clear.
I can either do 1 rep of dumbbell curls, put them down, pick them up, do another rep. Complete a set of 20 max-stim style and then repeat for 1 arm db extensions.
Or I can utilise the rest time to do the 1 arm extensions and therefore halve the time it takes me to do bis and tris.
How is that going to rob me of gains?
Cheers
Rob
Fausto
HST Expert
Rob
I assume that you then have the two exercises right next to each other!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Although on this occasion I have to disagree with you...
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Since I am not God and never wrote anything on stone, I guess that is just fine...you can't just agree with everything.
Just for arms, hey? Ok?
Sincerely, I though you going to have to walk around to get to the second exercise and then to do this for every rep, it sure sounded crazy! But alright, you say it works for you, then fine!
Let us know how it goes, maybe we need to learn this if it works well!
I assume that you then have the two exercises right next to each other!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Although on this occasion I have to disagree with you...
</div>
Since I am not God and never wrote anything on stone, I guess that is just fine...you can't just agree with everything.
Just for arms, hey? Ok?
Sincerely, I though you going to have to walk around to get to the second exercise and then to do this for every rep, it sure sounded crazy! But alright, you say it works for you, then fine!
Let us know how it goes, maybe we need to learn this if it works well!
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm doing something similar, although this has come about because I'm working out max-stim style.</div>
I'm actually yet to visit the Max-Stim/ Hypertrophy-Research site. Judging from quite a few threads on this forum, it seems to have a lot to do with rep-clustering.
I'm presuming that none of the principals conflict with HST. Correct?
I'm actually yet to visit the Max-Stim/ Hypertrophy-Research site. Judging from quite a few threads on this forum, it seems to have a lot to do with rep-clustering.
I'm presuming that none of the principals conflict with HST. Correct?
Fausto - you're right that would be crazy!! But please have a little faith!!
I do it with concentration curls and db 1 arm extensions so I can just use a bench and stay sat down for the whole 80 (count 'em!) rep set.
Berserk - you can use HST principles and max-stim together no problem. With max-stim you are doing 20 rep 'sets' so that's slightly different to traditional hst using 15, 10s, 5s etc.
However, most people keep total reps with HST fairly consistent (e.g. by doing 1 set in 15s, 2 in 10s and 3 in 5s). Therefore you can use max stim and still do a HST cycle by increasing weights over time.
Having said that Dan has developed a max stim template workout etc so visit the site to find out more.
Cheers
Rob
I do it with concentration curls and db 1 arm extensions so I can just use a bench and stay sat down for the whole 80 (count 'em!) rep set.
Berserk - you can use HST principles and max-stim together no problem. With max-stim you are doing 20 rep 'sets' so that's slightly different to traditional hst using 15, 10s, 5s etc.
However, most people keep total reps with HST fairly consistent (e.g. by doing 1 set in 15s, 2 in 10s and 3 in 5s). Therefore you can use max stim and still do a HST cycle by increasing weights over time.
Having said that Dan has developed a max stim template workout etc so visit the site to find out more.
Cheers
Rob
Fausto
HST Expert
Rob - Faith's never been my problem
Anyway I have been using max-stim with some of the stuff my favourite is heavy cable rows, and yeap, d/b conc curls (Arney's style (arm hanging completely and then the curl towards the shoulder), I drop the weight each time and yes sir, can do 20 reps with 5RM weight (about 15 Kgs).
Also did it with cable tricep extensions off a bench with a V-handle, 20 reps with 5 RM weight, hoooge pump, see the benefits
Anyway I have been using max-stim with some of the stuff my favourite is heavy cable rows, and yeap, d/b conc curls (Arney's style (arm hanging completely and then the curl towards the shoulder), I drop the weight each time and yes sir, can do 20 reps with 5RM weight (about 15 Kgs).
Also did it with cable tricep extensions off a bench with a V-handle, 20 reps with 5 RM weight, hoooge pump, see the benefits
ChuckGrill
New Member
Rob,
This is an interesting concept, but I wanted to ask are you finding more stimulation doing this rep to rep as opposed to doing it set to set?
This might be an isolated thing, but I'd be curious to see actual data to show this. Not that I'm saying that you should go out and do that, or that you're not getting max stim (because obviously you are if you're seeing results), but it would be interesting to see.
This is an interesting concept, but I wanted to ask are you finding more stimulation doing this rep to rep as opposed to doing it set to set?
This might be an isolated thing, but I'd be curious to see actual data to show this. Not that I'm saying that you should go out and do that, or that you're not getting max stim (because obviously you are if you're seeing results), but it would be interesting to see.
ChuckGrill
New Member
Well, to be honest I've never encountered the term "max stim", as I've always considered my workouts as going for maximum stimulation. So, with that in mind, I would have to say max stim.
max-stim is short for max-stimulation, a training method developed by dan moore - check out http://max-stimulation.hypertrophy-research.com
for more info.
supersetting rep for rep can work using max-stim depending on the exercise, with conventional sets then you would just superset sets and not reps.
hope that helps
rob
for more info.
supersetting rep for rep can work using max-stim depending on the exercise, with conventional sets then you would just superset sets and not reps.
hope that helps
rob
Lifting N Tx
New Member
I'm pretty new to both HST and Max-Stim. Max-Stim is based on similar ideas to HST (Dan Moore is an old-timer on this site), with some of the practical application of those ideas being a little different.
Specifically, in the basic Max-Stim program, you one set of 20 reps per exercise 2-4 times per week. It's the way of doing that set that is unusual. You do a rep, rack the weight, wait a few seconds, then repeat until done with all 20. The number of seconds between reps is increased, if necessary, as you keep doing the reps. So you might start with 3 seconds rest ("M-time"
between reps and go up to 7 or more before you finish your 20th rep.
Dan's web site states "The immediate effects are decreased fatigue, increased Time Under Tension and the ability to work with heavier loads."
I've just started an HST cycle and am thinking of using Max-Stim sets either in place of the heavier parts or to extend them.
Hope that helps give you an idea of what it's about. If not, check out the link that Rob gave if you'd like a better explanation.
Specifically, in the basic Max-Stim program, you one set of 20 reps per exercise 2-4 times per week. It's the way of doing that set that is unusual. You do a rep, rack the weight, wait a few seconds, then repeat until done with all 20. The number of seconds between reps is increased, if necessary, as you keep doing the reps. So you might start with 3 seconds rest ("M-time"
between reps and go up to 7 or more before you finish your 20th rep.Dan's web site states "The immediate effects are decreased fatigue, increased Time Under Tension and the ability to work with heavier loads."
I've just started an HST cycle and am thinking of using Max-Stim sets either in place of the heavier parts or to extend them.
Hope that helps give you an idea of what it's about. If not, check out the link that Rob gave if you'd like a better explanation.