HST, Arthur Jones, 20 Rep Squats Oh My!

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by redrooster, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. Heavy Duty dude

    Heavy Duty dude New Member

    I've done 20-reps squats excusively for my legs for many many years. For some time I even did 2 sets, which was very tiring as you can guess.

    Honestly the 20-reps squat is not that effective. Gains are much slower than 5lbs/week, and sometimes quite often you don't even gain.

    Also it never seemed to contribute to more overall growth.

    But it has to be said that I am rather ectomorphic. And as for the idea of eating like a pig, definitely not a good idea, breathing squats or not.

    And believe me I used to squat very hard.. I've seen people a few times who apparently were doing 20 reps squats but the intensity they put into it was far lower than me.

    So in any case most people don't have the guts to really do them hard enough.

    Besides, 20-rep squats are so hard that you become obsessed with your squat all the time. It is mentally grueling to do them over a long period.

    And that doesn't take into account the stress on your back..
     
  2. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Fausto @ Jan. 30 2008,03:17)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Now let's just resume here, this is the HST forum, right?

    Why are we discussing dubious, unchecked methodology? I am not saying old is no good, but to 5 x 4 = 20 as well, and fatigue if you are not doing MS training is not exactly the percursor to muscle building now is it?</div>
    It was by a reference to 20 rep squats on Mistress Krista's Stumptuous.com that I found the HST website in the first place... [​IMG]
     
  3. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    This is worth checking out to find out just what you are missing if you have never tried at least one attempt at a 20 rep squat (and as a tribute to Jesse):

    Jesse Marunde Squat 407lb x 20 reps
     
  4. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Thanks Heavy Duty Dude

    That to me is the whole argument...do 4 sets of 5 with 5 RM and you got your 20.

    Why bother with 20 reps and make your whole training around it? [​IMG]
     
  5. Heavy Duty dude

    Heavy Duty dude New Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Jan. 30 2008,17:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This is worth checking out to find out just what you are missing if you have never tried at least one attempt at a 20 rep squat (and as a tribute to Jesse):

    Jesse Marunde Squat 407lb x 20 reps</div>
    Those are real 20-rep squats. It gives an idea of how hard they are.

    Very few people can do them. I know hundreds of people who work out and I think I'm the only one to be crazy enough to do them properly.
     
  6. Heavy Duty dude

    Heavy Duty dude New Member

    <div>
    (Fausto @ Jan. 31 2008,03:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks Heavy Duty Dude

    That to me is the whole argument...do 4 sets of 5 with 5 RM and you got your 20.

    Why bother with 20 reps and make your whole training around it? [​IMG]</div>
    Sets of 20 are not the holy grail.. I've gained well with sets of 10s too. In fact they seem to be even more effective than the 20 reps squats.

    I think the 20-reps squats are very overrated.

    Imo people who swear by it have some sort ego problem.. They have the mentality of &quot;no pain no gain&quot;, while in reality it's a bit more complicated than that.
     
  7. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Fausto @ Jan. 31 2008,03:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That to me is the whole argument...do 4 sets of 5 with 5 RM and you got your 20.

    Why bother with 20 reps and make your whole training around it? [​IMG]</div>
    Thank goodness for Max-Stim and it's marvelous M-time. What is the physiological advantage of standing there with the heavy bar on your shoulders when it could be sitting on the rack while you rest...?

    Max-Stim lets me do 20 reps of my 5RM several times each week.
     
  8. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    TR, there is still a huge difference between Max-Stim and a normal set due to the onset of fatigue.
     
  9. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    So...fatigue has been proven not to be the holy grail, wher in the hell ar epeople writing that it releases more hormone, bollocks! [​IMG]
     
  10. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    <div>
    (Fausto @ Jan. 31 2008,09:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So...fatigue has been proven not to be the holy grail, wher in the hell ar epeople writing that it releases more hormone, bollocks! [​IMG]</div>
    Good call, hit it right back to the OP! The point was, even if release of extra hormones was released in a major compound exercise such as the Squat, then do these hormones actually play a role in heightened hypertrophy?
     
  11. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Hormones alone do not cause hypertrophy but they are the precursor of it, many different biochemical reactions take place for hypertrophy to occur.

    The human body is a highly complex machine and cannot be understood in components as some people try to do without considering the many other factors that make a certain reaction take place!
     
  12. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (colby2152 @ Jan. 31 2008,09:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">TR, there is still a huge difference between Max-Stim and a normal set due to the onset of fatigue.</div>
    Yup, which is exactly why I choose Max-Stim...! [​IMG]
     
  13. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    The jury is still out on MS vs HST, and I'd suspect there is little difference at this time, but as for the 20rep squats, I did 20rep sets with a hack squat for a while, and it didn't grow anything but DOMs.
    Workload is still King IMO, but the rep ranges most effective (if you MUST choose ONE) are around 5-12 from all I've read lately. Another reason the 5x5 causes hypertrophy. I still don't understand by what mechanism growth would occur with extreme rep ranges or worse, the 8-minute routine.
     

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