HST, Arthur Jones, 20 Rep Squats Oh My!

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by redrooster, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    I haven't either, but I HAVE seen a lot of BIG guys hammering out a LOT of volume. Now looking at the phase II of Korte 3x3, the volume drops off drastically. I think it's creating some mitochondrial growth, conditioning and a bit of fatigue training (for whatever reason) before hitting the big stuff, and does not HST do the same thing? Yup.
    Also, there are some similarities between this and the Madcow 5x5 intermediate training, which makes you strong; very strong. I'm not sure what to call it, but rather than a "muscle confusion" bag of crap, it's a systematic process doing a few different things using the movements you're trying to improve. And I REALLY believe in that.
    You wanna hammer 60 nails a minute? Get a hammer and nails to practice with.
     
  2. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Jan. 20 2008,18:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I haven't either, but I HAVE seen a lot of BIG guys hammering out a LOT of volume. Now looking at the phase II of Korte 3x3, the volume drops off drastically.</div>
    I can't speak for the BIG guys, but I was a little guy hammering out a LOT of volume using Korte's 3X3 program. The result was a deadlift well over twice my body weight (I also lost a bit of bodyfat as I was cutting while I did the program).
     
  3. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    The increase in size and/or strength are easy to explain where volume is concerned. For size it's time under tension. More is better than less. For strength it's the repetition. More is also better than less.
     
  4. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    <div>
    (Lol @ Jan. 18 2008,06:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Warm up thoroughly with some lighter loads then do one rep of flyes with your 5 RM load followed by one rep of bench with your 5 RM. Rinse and repeat for 20 reps. This way the respective part of your arms being worked are getting a bit more time to recover between reps but your pecs are being hit every rep.

    I doubt this is really much different to doing 10 MS reps for flyes followed by 10 MS reps for bench (or vice versa) with your 5RMs because MS is designed to reduce fatigue anyway, but at least you will be using heavy weights.</div>
    Good idea.

    My .02, I've never understood pre-exhaust in which Isolation was used first, this naturally exhausts the pecs which means the shoulders and arms are supporting the load during the compound. I think doing your compound first, then adding in more volume via isolation is the way to go.
     
  5. Krieger

    Krieger New Member

    Redrooster really put so effort on it.. I love that guy !

    I was searching about 20 rep squats and never went so much deep as this thread. Anyway, I'm more interested in empirical results, and as far as I searched, so many people did the breathing squats and reports the huge mass gains (sometimes with no fat!). Takes no effort to do a search on google, or amazon's book super squats reviews.

    I'll just do it, and see how it goes.
     
  6. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    <div>
    (Krieger @ Jan. 22 2008,21:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I was searching about 20 rep squats and never went so much deep as this thread. Anyway, I'm more interested in empirical results, and as far as I searched, so many people did the breathing squats and reports the huge mass gains (sometimes with no fat!).</div>
    20 Rep Squats Video

    I hope he drinks a lot of milk...
     
  7. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    Is that essentially good form at Back Squats? It looks like I have the same form as that chap in TR's video. I have been thinking form was an issue with my squats because my left knee has a hard crack/click every time I go down during Squats.

    (Now we are switching from Quad's Chest to my Knees, what a way to hijack this thread!) [​IMG]
     
  8. lcars

    lcars New Member

    all i can say about 20 rep squats is that if you are using enough weight, they separate the men from the boys.i recently tried 30 rep squats with 100k and all i can say is jesus christ monkey balls!

    i have gained some mass from high rep squats but find 8-12 reps optimum for hypertrphy for me!
     
  9. Krieger

    Krieger New Member

    I performed 20 rep squats with small weight in wednesday... And today is friday and I barely can walk.
     
  10. QuantumPositron

    QuantumPositron New Member

    I tried to find a theoretical basis for why breathing squats could work in the manner advertised. I dug into the hGH &amp; IGF-1 research and could only conclude its plausible but that with the current level of scientific knowledge the theoretical efficacy of breathing squats is indeterminate. That means I can't figure it out.

    Krieger, can you link me some of those testimonials? In my own search I found some guru trash and testimonials both for and against the practice.
     
  11. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    QP

    I too find it difficult to accept that just drinking milk and doing 20 rep squats is going to get usany bigger than doing 2 sets of 10 would, the difficulty however is a given, darn difficult to do, will get your legs terribly sore...but THE PURPOSE, IS IT REAL?

    Somehow the scientific evidence seems to point at volume (or should I say Work = weight x reps) being better to achieve growth over time than one high rep set, anyway I am tired of controversy. Right now I am struggling with 15 reps and hopping for them to end soon [​IMG]

    Colby - form is squats can be found in Ripp's book, 50 pages of the damned subject, one has to end up being better at squatting after reading that section...next up I'm buying meself some Oly shoes [​IMG]
     
  12. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    What does he say about squatting barefoot? I do it that way or with flat-bottomed tennies. Never felt a thing for my feets.
     
  13. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What does he say about squatting barefoot? I do it that way or with flat-bottomed tennies. Never felt a thing for my feet.</div>

    If you do, your flexibility is excellent, or do you use something under your feet?
     
  14. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    <div>
    (Fausto @ Jan. 29 2008,03:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Colby - form is squats can be found in Ripp's book, 50 pages of the damned subject, one has to end up being better at squatting after reading that section...next up I'm buying meself some Oly shoes [​IMG]</div>
    I have already the Squat chapter, and the &quot;new&quot; form is tough to get used to. My left knee seems to crack a bit too much, which is why I am concerned. I have been looking into glucosamine, but I am not sold.
     
  15. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Well, Colby...next thing I'd do is strap up teh knee while doing squats, just to keep things safe! [​IMG]
     
  16. Krieger

    Krieger New Member

    Here's the link to &quot;Super Squats: Gain 30 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks!&quot;

    http://www.amazon.com/Super-S....&amp;sr=8-1

    The FIRST thing I have to say, is: YES, 30 Pounds of muscle is not realistic but if you read through it you can conclude it will have much muscle gains anyway. Though one of the reviewers claims that he made 35 lbs gains and other 27.

    Read through the reviews and see if anyone who actually tried the program gainned a very nice amount of muscle.

    Reviews here:
    http://www.amazon.com/review....oints=1

    In the first two pages I saw and counted 5 people who gained a lot of muscle. [​IMG]
     
  17. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Sorry Krieg...not convinced! Don't want to consume that much milk anyway! [​IMG]
     
  18. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    1/2 gal./day actually - but you'd better make it skim if over that! Also written before the heyday of whey. If you were looking skeptically for negative info on the book (the way I check things out) there was PLENTY of that, even in the positive posts. Mostly as an outdated book, that could have been a pamphlet, for all it taught you.
    The best point made about the breathing squats I saw was as a plateau buster- just exactly what I've been usually touting as a thing called &quot;change&quot;.
    Insert big &quot;Duh!&quot; here...
    I found that I've been doing them for a long time - just extending sets with rests to get more reps (workload) in now and then. I didn't know it had a name.
     
  19. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Now let's just resume here, this is the HST forum, right?

    Why are we discussing dubious, unchecked methodology? I am not saying old is no good, but to 5 x 4 = 20 as well, and fatigue if you are not doing MS training is not exactly the percursor to muscle building now is it? We've kinda beaten that horse over and over again, the poor thing [​IMG]

    I think crappy methods written by people basing themselves on hearsay, suck.

    On the other hand...become a &quot;lab coat&quot; trainee and give it a go...then drop by and convince us, we like that...good ol'proof! [​IMG]
     
  20. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Personally, I don't see how there could be a huge benefit - growth and strengthwise - to doing 20 very fatiguing squat reps with your 10 RM instead of doing 20 less fatiguing (though obviously still quite taxing) MS reps with your 5 RM. Maybe when you almost stroke out because of the blood pressure buildup with 20 rep squats, that somehow triggers the 'greatness' gene. Who knows.
     

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