Ironagers diets, why use todays methods?

L

Lance

New Member
In the Ironage ... ya know ... Arnold, Sergio, Zane, Nubret, them great folks, they had much different ways of doing things with their diets. I'm not going to get into their training here, just their diets.

They didn't worry about EFA's. Didn't even seem to know about them. Their diets were full of saturated fats.

They didn't worry about creatine. Wasn't out yet. They did eat a TON of meat and though, and i'm assuming they probably got a fair amount of creatine.

Alot of them didn't worry about calories, like Arnold himself. He says himself he didn't count calories. They just learned how to eat by putting together diets, and watching the results.

Why don't we do this anymore? It's like not accepted anywhere. It seems like a MUCH less stressful way of eating right. I mean, most of us know what's good to eat. So why don't we just put together diets with enough protein and such, throw in good foods, etc., and just watch what happens? Ya know, cut out some food if we're getting fat, or whatever.

Also, they didn't worry about pre/post wo nutrition, they just ate 5-6 meals a day or whatever, and in all honesty, are they THAT much smaller? They looked great, in fact, i prefer their physiques to the mass monsters of today.

So, i guess what i'm getting at is, do we go out of our way with all this? Do we just obssesively stress ourselves out more than we need to?
 
You can't argue with science. If those old bodybuilders had the access to all of the different studies that have been conducted between then and now, including all of the nutritional supplements that we have today, no telling what they would or could have looked like. Todays diet's more stressful..........maybe, but more productive...........definitely.
 
There are some things that just bug me. That i'm not so sure about.

For instance, is the pre/post wo shakes really THAT important? It's so easy to set up a diet with 5 good wholesome meals spread out evenly through out the day. But then there are the pre/post wo shakes, the 3 hour time window with several strategically placed meals at diff. time intervals with diff. GI ratings and protein ratios, etc. So complicated things are now.

I wonder whether it's better to have fun, be less stressed, and still make gains following things in a simple way.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Lance @ Aug. 02 2004,7:55)]So complicated things are now.
I wonder whether it's better to have fun, be less stressed, and still make gains following things in a simple way.
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Jeez. I never realized how complicated drinking a protein shake could be. Serioulsy, you need to do more research in pre/post WO nutrition. While they may not be NECESSARY, their benefits so greatly outweigh the "inconvenience."
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You're right, i am blowing it a little out of proportion. It's just whenever i watch Pumping Iron i start thinking. =)
 
Arnold also used to go down to the local beer hall after a workout in his younger days. Try that one for a bit and report back with your progress...

With the combination of their genetics and drug regimes they could get away with that kind of thing.
 
I know that adding a PWO protein shake with maltodextrin helped my recovery immensely over a traditional whole meal. That's good enough for me.
 
You're right that no one REALLY needs the pre/post wo shakes. The problem with our society today is that we are all really impatient and we want results as quick as possible. By using pre/post wo shakes and following what research has taught us, some people might make some gains that would normally take a few more weeks to get, or whatever.

Personally I don't take pre/post wo shakes because I don't need to get big that quick or have my life scheduled around my diet, etc., and think it's "better to have fun, be less stressed, and still make gains following things in a simple way." And yes, I do make respectable gains without spending my money.

However, this is just me, I am not that into bodybuilding. If I were a professional bodybuilder (which a lot of people on this forum think they are), then by all means follow the best methods to the letter. If you are like me and focus your efforts in other areas of your life, then I wouldn’t worry too much about all the extras, because we all know how aggravating it is trying to make things perfect.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Canadian Bacon @ Aug. 28 2004,10:34)]However, this is just me, I am not that into bodybuilding. If I were a professional bodybuilder (which a lot of people on this forum think they are), then by all means follow the best methods to the letter. If you are like me and focus your efforts in other areas of your life, then I wouldn’t worry too much about all the extras, because we all know how aggravating it is trying to make things perfect.
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Why the hostility, man?!! Don't be mad just cuz your tubby. Some people just have more dedication than you I guess. I never liked canadian bacon much. :)

One thing you will fiind out really fast is that if you come on this board and try and argue science you will get shot down fast. Don't try and be a dick and call people out here when we are all just trying to help each other.
 
Well I do like bacon... but im not a tubby
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Hostility... me?

"Jeez. I never realized how complicated drinking a protein shake could be. Serioulsy, you need to do more research in pre/post WO nutrition"

I think you need to cut down on the AAS or whatever you are on because you don’t seem to see that you are a hypocrite. In fact, every post of yours that I have read has had a hint of hostility in it, always dismissing other people’s relevant questions? “Why don't you try and doing a PubMed search and research it a little.”

Anyhow, what I was saying in my previous post was that for those of us who have lives outside of bodybuilding, I don’t think the majority of people are going to have to follow the big boy’s with the drug induced hypertrophy regimes in order to make respectable gains.

Not at any point was I arguing the science behind anything, in fact when it comes to the science I’m all ears. I don't know why you took my post as an attack on yourself, I was just clearly expressing MY opinion on the matter. I do understand that others are more dedicated and once again I gave MY opinion.
“However, this is just me, I am not that into bodybuilding. If I were a professional bodybuilder (which a lot of people on this forum think they are), then by all means follow the best methods to the letter.”

Am I not allowed to have a say just because I don’t spend all my time on my routine? I would suggest rereading my post and you will see that 1)I was not being hostile 2) I was not arguing science 3) I was not “calling people out”, I was clearly stating some facts that I guess you don’t want to hear “we are all really impatient and we want results as quick as possible” I truly believe this because I am exactly the same way, in more aspects of my life than just bodybuilding.
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Canadian Bacon @ Aug. 29 2004,2:30)]Anyhow, what I was saying in my previous post was that for those of us who have lives outside of bodybuilding, I don’t think the majority of people are going to have to follow the big boy’s with the drug induced hypertrophy regimes in order to make respectable gains.
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It is statements like this that are what I am pointing out to you. You think that just because some of us choose to drink a pre or post WO shake with some dextrose in it means that we are all roid heads that are completely obsessed with making our muscles grow. Like this is some kind of flaw in our character. That we aren't as "well rounded" and interested in other things in our lives as thou.

You pointed out that I sometimes sound hostile in my posts. Well, I have been a member of this board for going on three years now. I have seen the same questions over and over and over again. I know that unless SOME ONE points these people in the right direction, no one will. Their questions, as elementary as they may be, will go unanswered. It gets frustrating when all of the information that anyone could possibly want to know about HST and all things involved can be easily found by skimming the FAQ's, or performing a topic search. I see it as helping them help themselves. At least I am offering SOME kind of assistance, instead of just giving some kind of selfish opinion. :)
 
An adequate diet with all the proper proportions and a good multi vitamin would be all you needed.
Your body will tell you what it needs.
It’s just that we (most of us) are not in tune with it. We have to learn to recognize the needs before they begin to cannibalize us.
I know that in the past when I was really putting on muscle I had a craving for protein.
That’s why we do all the supplement stuff in advance so we never get to the point of self-cannibalization.
My answer to your question is NO we don’t need all the extra crap if we learn to
Recognize what our body is saying to us and then know what to do about it.
In addition, about all this “HOSTILE” stuff.
Some of us are harder to wake up that others.
A slap in the face is all we need!
How about this one ……..
“IF YOU CAN”T STAND THE HEAT THEM GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN”
Now lets get back to muscle ..OK ?
 
You’re right sonny, some people are babies when a little criticism shows up at their doorstep. I really don’t mind baby a’s posts, I was really just telling him he’s a hypocrite (maybe somebody aught to tell people when they’re being asses)

Just one thing I want to say before I end this pathetic dispute and that is that MY opinions, are just as worthy as the great BABY A’s opinions. Because 90% of the stuff posted is just that, an OPINION…

So, even though I’m probably half the age of the baby, I will be the mature one and won’t post anything more to hurt your feelings. Wouldn’t want you to start some rage or anything, and I suggest you not try to start bickering with people online, it’s really pathetic. What was said was said and they are just words, they aren’t going to hurt you.
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BTW, why not hear it like it is;

“Anyhow, what I was saying in my previous post was that for those of us who have lives outside of bodybuilding, I don’t think the majority of people are going to have to follow the big boy’s with the drug induced hypertrophy regimes in order to make respectable gains.”

This is a somewhat true statement, and I think you agree you just don’t like how straight to the point it is.
 
You only prove my point more with every post you make. This has nothing to do with being hurt or offended by what you were saying. It is just that everything you have said in your last few posts has been wrong. Take it from me, I don't use steroids, never have. Neither do MOST of the members of this board. I also subscribe to the research in pre and post WO nutrition and can tell you that it has made a SIGNIFICANT difference in my training. Same as it has in the majority of this board. That is the issue, the only issue. If this is something that you feel makes me or anyone else around here some kind of obsessive meat-head goon, then I don't know what to tell you. That is a personal issue. I guess I just never realized how much drinking a few protein shakes a week could influence a persons values.
 
I think you need to reread all of the posts and you will see that at no point did I say there was anything wrong with taking or doing whatever you wish. At no point was I calling anyone "meat heads" or even going near that line of thought. You on the other hand have been trying to put those words into my mouth, I could care less about what others do and I'm not downsizing anyone. If you learned how to read properly you would be able to see that I wasn't doing anything but giving my opion, what I stated was from someone that is "not that into bodybuilding"

"I also subscribe to the research in pre and post WO nutrition and can tell you that it has made a SIGNIFICANT difference in my training. Same as it has in the majority of this board."
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Nice opinion, I and the others that read this can take that into consideration, but just because I and the majority of people don't follow this guideline doesn't mean you should be trying to cram it down peoples throats, sure it might be the the ultimate way of gaining the most LBM in the least amount of time, but like I said before I think it's "better to have fun, be less stressed, and still make gains following things in a simple way." I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with you or the others taking pre/post anything, and I NEVER said I had a problem with it, all I said was that I don't do it. Is there anything wrong with that? No. However, you seem to think there is, your defensive/aggresive attitude leads me to believe that you were just looking for some kind of fight, and like I said in my previous post I will be the mature one and say I'm done.

Reread my first post, and you will see that I am RIGHT, not WRONG like you have tried unsuccessfully to point out, you were wrong for your first reply to me and you know it... so don't continue this anymore or I will have to keep putting you in your place.

P.S. If you're getting stuck on anything while rereading the posts this link my help you out
dictionary.com
 
If I were a professional bodybuilder (which a lot of people on this forum think they are), then by all means follow the best methods to the letter. If you are like me and focus your efforts in other areas of your life, then I wouldn’t worry too much about all the extras, because we all know how aggravating it is trying to make things perfect.

-Canadian Bacon

I don't understand how this statement is not meant to be degrading to those of us around here who may focus a bit more of our efforts into our training than you do. My whole point in this WHOLE pseudo-arugument was that you have no reason or right to judge any of us by whether or not we choose to drink a protein shake here or there. That many of us "think" we are pro-bodybuilders because of how we choose to live our lives outside of the gym. You say that my opinion is that pre and post nutrition has made an impact with my training. However, recognize that this is not an opinion. This is a FACT. An example of an opinion is what you offered up with your first post: I think it's "better to have fun, be less stressed, and still make gains following things in a simple way."

But I am proud of you for being so obviously much more important than me, given that you have so much more going on in your life that you choose not to get stressed out by drinking a shake for 10 seconds after you workout.

And anyone can tell that at no time have you "put me in my place." As neither have I done to you. My intention was just to let you know that I don't appreciate you judging me or anyone else around here. If you want to turn this into some kind of pissing contest, be my guest. But I will tell you that will be a foolish decision if you continue to choose to do so.
 
WOW, you just don't want to leave this alone.

Professional = someone who gets PAID to do something. So unless you are getting paid to workout than you "think" you are a professional bodybuilder. I have NO problem with this and didn't realize that I was saying something in a way that offends you, for that i'm sorry.

"You say that my opinion is that pre and post nutrition has made an impact with my training. However, recognize that this is not an opinion. This is a FACT. An example of an opinion is what you offered up with your first post: I think it's "better to have fun, be less stressed, and still make gains following things in a simple way."

If you agree that what I said was an opinion, then why did you start this fight in the first place? Once again it looks like you are saying that someone like me isn't allowed to have a say. If you go back to the beginning of this topic, you will see that it is not solely about whether or not to take pre/post anything. It's about whether it is really necessary to take them since you can get decent results without.

I must have really struck a nerve with you on how much time people spend on their routines. I am not in any way stating that I am superior because my interest lie elsewhere. What I was saying to LANCE was that for those of us who don't spend a lot of time on our routines, we can still make gains. The fact that after my first post you come back at me with this:

"Why the hostility, man?!! Don't be mad just cuz your tubby. Some people just have more dedication than you I guess. I never liked canadian bacon much. :)
One thing you will fiind out really fast is that if you come on this board and try and argue science you will get shot down fast. Don't try and be a dick and call people out here when we are all just trying to help each other."

Tells me that you have no respect for other peoples opinions. Never did I say that YOUR opinions or facts or whatever you want to call them were faulty. Basically what you are stating there is 1) someone that doesn't use enhancing products is "tubby" 2) you agreed with me that other people have more dedication to this area of their life than I 3) You state that I am disagreeing with some kind of science? which I don't understand because I wasn't disagreeing w/ the pre/post... 4) I was not being a "dick" like you, or "calling people out" and I explained that in my first paragraph of this post.
 
I appreciate your apology, Canadian Bacon. I don't intend to carry out this post any longer. I didn't ever take any offense to any of your opinions other than the one (which I guess was a misunderstanding) in which you assumed that some of us have delusions of grandeur. Please note that I also don't intend to carry out this argument into any other posts that we may enter into together. Let's just get back to helping people, agreed!! :)
 
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