Iso's ARE necessary

yes, you cant get carried away with specific examples of actors, gymnasts, sprinters in order to prove a certain type of training does or doesnt pack on muscle. in todays world cross training is must to reach the higher levels of competition and the sprinters, gymnasts, actors who people are familier with are typically natl/world class (says something about talent level, genetics etc etc) athletes and make up an amazingly small % of the population (actors of course make up a small % but who knows about the athlete part). name 5 male gymnasts, 10 sprinters and 15 actors with great physiques. im sure some of you can but this is out of a country of how many million?

one caveat, i dont know too many gymnasts but the ones i do know are certainly not amazing genetic specimens but they do have an edge on joe avg physique-wise, more so then all the sprinters i know.

anywya, this is all very non-scientific but still fun to knock around.
 
I'd like to say this has been a great thread.
Not to forget that the camera makes us look bigger: I've met actors and thought, "Gee, ya looked so BIG on the screen!"...
And yes, the gals tend to like bods like Slapshot, DrPierre and up to, say, Steve Jones, but I'll bet a paycheck that guys like Jay Cutler doesn't have to hit the internet to find a date!
I'm a compound user, but agree with Solsun: nothin' like the feel of the blast from a good set of skullz! Do what makes ya feel good and like the Firminator, don't worry about the small shtuf.
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(soflsun @ Sep. 12 2007,02:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Look...I don't want to be the a**hole of this board.  I like the concept of HST, I am keeping a chart in the training log section, and I am taking pictures to chart my progress.  I should have titled the thread, &quot;Iso's ARE necessary for me IMO.&quot;  I came to a harsh conclusion without looking at all of the factors. What is evident though, is that you can be strong and not have that much hypertrophy...which is the opposite of why I am here.  I am looking to build a certain physique, not lift a certain weight.  There are many options available for me to reach my goals, and the addition of iso's is a viable option for me.  I am not a power lifter nor do I plan to enter strength competitions for DL, Squats, Bench, etc.  So I will focus on a variety of exercises to build a well-rounded look.  I think another noteworthy point is that all newbies should not be automatically pushed into this direction of core only exercises, especially when the founder gives directions otherwise.</div>
soflsun
the reason bryan does the routine he does is because he is conditioned after so many years as a bbr,he has said this himself,the longer you train the more sets etc you need to get a stimulus.

if a newbie can grow of doing 1 set then thats what he should do untill he stops growing then he can add another set,it would be pointless to start a newbie on 4 or 5 sets when they will probably grow on one,and also there bis and tris will get enough stimulus from compounds because they have never lifted before so thats why they are pointed to mostly compound workouts.

do as little as you need to grow and only after you stop growing add more
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I have been away from the forum for a while, and this looks to be the #thread -- up to four pages in four days! I didn't read every bit, but to the OP... if isolations seem to work for you, then don't fix what isn't broken. However, most of us here have found much more success working almost exclusively compound exercises.
 
Just a thought, I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet.

I think sometimes it matters the way you perform a compound exercise - in order to get the most out of it from the hypertrophy perspective they need to be done in a certain way.

Take the military press for example. I use a medium-narrow grip and I always press the weight from shoulder height to just shy of lock out.

The tension is always kept on the muscles involved and the relatively narrow grip means my shoulders get a bit of loaded-stretch (of sorts) at the beginning of the movement.

I use similar ideas/methods with my other compounds too.

Compare this to a powerlifter, where the aim to press the most amount of weight no-matter-what. They take a wide grip, they arch their backs - in other words, finding as much leverage and as little range of motion as possible.

Using the first method, you find that you are not able to move as much weight, but there is much more stimulation on the muscle (IMHO.) I get some wicked pumps too!

Like I said, it was just a thought, maybe it's worth giving it a try on some of your compounds? (if you haven't already.)

Daniel
 
Daniel

You certainly got a point there!

I am with you, compounds that are done by the book accomplish so much more, many trainers too insist on this, namely Will Brink (perfect rep), now I would not really go around saying he's a turd, IMO he knows his stuff!
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There are many others.

Now to keep with the program, isos may be necessary for certain people and after a ceratin level of conditioning.
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I find that my arms get best stimulated if I superset Chins/incline curls and weighted dips/either skulls or pushdowns.

And so it may be with other people but isos IMO should be used to complement rather than to be the stapple of a trainers workout diet.
 
interstin stuff guys!

JUST a thought, when DOING a compound exercise, and we finish all sets (whatever exercise/setup we were doing), how do we know WHICH muscle groups received adequate microtrauma? for example someone may do bench, but only get microtrauma in their chest, so therefore their chest will grow, but say their shoulders/tris don't get that growth. in THAT case would iso's be needed (or simply another compound exercise but one that is more tri or shoulder focused eg dips)???

i'm thinking i guess in terms of adequate stimulus for the muscle groups targeted...

PS. VERY IMPORTANT i had to note, the definition of a compound exercise is NOT one that uses more than one muscle group, it's an exercise that uses more than one JOINT (eg bench press- horizontal shoulder flexion and elbow extension) ;) very important i thought to note haha
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because even cable flies use more than one muscle group, yet is an isolation exercise ;)
 
Simon

1st off: I think you can only see either by the amount of DOMS (if you get it even if slightly), it'll tell which muscles were worked, not that it means hypertrophy will happen for sure (this DOMS story has been discussed ad nauseum before) or,

by the hypertrophy resultant after 1 or two cycles of doing a specific exercise in a certain way.

To me although I will not recommend newbies to go and do isolation movements until they build a solid base, I can't see them hurting if used in conjunction with a compound movement, specially if used as a superset either pre-exahust or post exahust, however both of these techniques are rather advanced and are ways of getting around sticking points...something I would not expect to find in a novice!

Just my 0.2 cents
 
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