It's Time.

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by JonnyG11, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. JonnyG11

    JonnyG11 New Member

    It's good to be back.

    I experimented with HST around 2003-5. Lots has happened since then but HST has been on my mind a while now so I'm jumping back in. I'm looking forward to gaining / regaining muscle. I won't go too much into my story but I'm down under 140lbs now at 5'6. I've bulked as high as 165 in the past doing things like Dan John's Mass Made Simple (grueling) and a few other variants of heavy wave loading. The sad part was I didn't maintain that weight for long at all. Life happened and I lost my gains as quickly as they occurred.

    Anyway, I tested my 15RMs yesterday and I plan to test another rep range tomorrow. I'm wondering if I only test 5's could I then just calculate the 10s? This would give me 2 more days of SD based on my start date.

    Also, probably over thinking this but wondering if things like Feldenkrais/Somatics are ok during SD?

    For now, my goal is a lean 165 but I'm finally ok with smoothing out a bit first to get there.

  2. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    There are rep calculators on line and you can guesstimate them as well. However, as you are starting after after 10+ years, I would take the extra day and determine them without guesswork.

    Feldenkrais/Somatics should not interfere with SD.
  3. JonnyG11

    JonnyG11 New Member

    Thanks. Well, I've still been training.. just not HST. I'll see how the weekend goes and reassess.
  4. JonnyG11

    JonnyG11 New Member

    I'm going with the following A/B split for the first cycle.

    A Squat
    A Bench
    A UH Pulldown
    A Chest Supported Row

    B Deadlift
    B OH Press
    B Dips
    B Barbell Curls

    Should I stick with 2 sets across the board or run 3 sets when I get to the 5's?
    I've also seen 2 sets for 15s, 3 for 10s, and 4-5 for 5s.

  5. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    So to answer how you should scale your sets/reps will depend on a handful of factors:
    • What was your previous cycles' training intensities and volumes like?
    • Would moving to 2 sets each represent a large reduction in volume compared to your previous training?
    • How many "hard" sets a week can you recover from?
    • How many times a week are you training?
    • What are your goals other than hypertrophy?
    Regardless of your answers above I think if you want to stick with that A/B split you need to add in some accessory work (4 lifts just isn't very many) or workout daily. If you stick with 2 sets your accessory work should continue throughout the cycle, if you ramp up your primary lifts you should scale down your accessories.
    JonnyG11 and Brixtonian like this.
  6. JonnyG11

    JonnyG11 New Member

  7. JonnyG11

    JonnyG11 New Member

    I've decided to add a few things here and reassess after this round.

    I added Skullcrushers, Single Calf Raises and straight sets of Reverse crunches w extension.

    Will reassess the accessories after this round of mastering the basics.
  8. JonnyG11

    JonnyG11 New Member

    Just finished 2x15s today. Up 2.4 lbs since I started. Looking forward to the 10s.
  9. Brixtonian

    Brixtonian Active Member

    Hi Jon,

    Your routine sounds ideal to get back into it - and even just for mass gains.
    Really don't worry too much about adding arm fluff work at this point. If you are working hard with the rows and UH pulldowns, (try and work towards UH chin-ups) then your biceps will get a good workout anyway.
    Likewise, if you are working hard on the Dips, bench and OHP, then really I wouldn't waste recovery energy on skullcrushers.
    Think how small your bicep and tricep muscles are in comparison with the rest of your muscles? So why are you allocating the same amount of energy/time to working them? So like Adpowah suggested, you would always be better off ramping up your volume slightly and/or doing an extra compound movement.

    Good to tag calves on the end though, as they always appreciate a little extra love and attention.

    2 sets of 15s, 3 sets of 10s, 4-5 sets of 5s.
    3 x week.

    And eat. If you want to be 165lb, then eat like a 165lb guy. That means at least 165g of protein a day.

    Good luck

    adpowah, NWlifter and JonnyG11 like this.
  10. JonnyG11

    JonnyG11 New Member

    Appreciate that, Brix. I started the 10s today with 3 sets. Dropped skullcrushers.

    Definitely agree about getting back to heavy chins. Bums me out that I used to do heavy chins and dips years ago but I'll get back to it again soon!
  11. Brixtonian

    Brixtonian Active Member

    That is the great thing about chin ups and dips - they are two of the exercises that you can go really heavy on and do negative only sets onto
    With chins and dips, as you get stronger, you get heavier, and therefore more weight to pull/push on these exercises.

    Stay with three sets of 10s this cycle. But next cycle, on the second week of 10s you could look at adding in myo rep sets on the last couple of days, and really get a good burn.

    Heavy dips will put way more size on your triceps than skullcrushers
  12. Sci

    Sci Well-Known Member

    [QUOTE="Brixtonian, post: 260586, member]

    Heavy dips will put way more size on your triceps than skullcrushers[/QUOTE]
    I don’t agree. Skull crushers trained correcttly will fully stimulate growth in the triceps. I do however think dips are superior, but only because it is a compound movement that works a whole group of muscles in a “natural motion.”
    Skull crushers will no doubt grow the triceps plenty, but why waste time on isolations when you can crush some heavy compounds?
  13. Brixtonian

    Brixtonian Active Member

    Sci, I understand what you are saying.
    However, I didn't say that skullcrushers wont put on size - I said that I believe, from the mechanics of the exercise, (similar to comparing leg extensions with a leg press) and the ability to move more weight, and in my experience - having done both - that dips work two out of three heads more effectively, and will put on more size, and faster.
    Ideally both are needed, as skullcrushers primarily hit the long head, (stretching) whereas dips hit all three - long, medial and lateral - although they do hit the longer head to a lesser degree.

    My point, as you noted, was to question why someone would work skullcrushers with the same amount of work - reps/sets/frequency - as they would work squats or deads etc...
    Jester likes this.
  14. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Haven’t seen a lot of 180kg+ benchers in tested meets, with massive pipes for arms showing off their skullccrushers on social media.

    They’re useful if benching and dips are issues for you, but definitely far from being first choice.
    Brixtonian likes this.
  15. Sci

    Sci Well-Known Member

    I agree with a lot and f what you are saying. EMG studies show that skull crushers are one of the best triceps exercises that exist. If I was focusing on triceps growth I would absolutely include these as well as compounds like dips and presses.
  16. Brixtonian

    Brixtonian Active Member

    Yes. That.

    I agree 100%. In an arm or 'push' specialisation cycle, then definitely, skullcrushers have an important and effective place and yes, I always/usually include them in my arm specialisation routines, although as a fatigue movement, (higher rep range) following a heavy 5X5 on dips or CG bench.

    However, in this context, as in a full-body bulking cycle, where efficiency, proportion, and recovery time are key, then I, personally, would always prefer and see more benefit from a heavy compound pressing movement, which allow you to move significantly more weight.
    Sci likes this.
  17. Sci

    Sci Well-Known Member

    Yeah. I have genetically decent triceps, I almost never do isolations.
    Brixtonian likes this.
  18. Brixtonian

    Brixtonian Active Member

    It still makes me laugh how so many 'gym rats' spend hours working their biceps and put in less than half the effort on their tris - despite the fact that triceps are 2/3 of their arm size...

    I built my arm size (and back and chest) almost entirely on weighted dips and chin ups - and they are still my two favourite exercises - plus squats...
    and yes, as mentioned in another thread - I think - back in the days of high intensity training, on quite a few occasions, I had to physically vomit from pushing myself so hard on those - especially the chins. :eek::eek::eek:
  19. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    ......... all this talk of dips and chins.... has inspired me to do more dips and chins.

    Adding to the routine ;)
    Old and Grey and Brixtonian like this.
  20. Brixtonian

    Brixtonian Active Member

    Two of the most underrated exercises in my humble opinion. Push - upper body squat (dips) and - pull - upper body 'reverse deadlift' (chins)
    Versatile, naturally progressive - with increasing lean bwt - and ideal for HST because they are two exercises that are easy to do in the - also highly underrated - negatives cycle.
    Luke matthews and _Simon_ like this.

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