Korte's program

S

scientific muscle

New Member
I was researching strength progams lately and found Korte's 3x3 program to be interesting.

He recommends high-volume and simply training the big three, three times/week. (squat/bench/deadlift) with progressive loading.

While I am not going to follow the program, I find the idea of doing a few basic lifts every workout to be simple and in line with the S.A.I.D. principle.

There are only 5 lifts which I really want to get strong on and I am thinking of just doing those 5 lifts 2 to 3 times/week with progressive loading for strength.

The lifts are:
Squat
Deadlift
Dips
Chins
Overhead Press

Obviously the one possible problem is that doing squats/deads every workout is extremely taxing on the lower back and CNS. I was thinking that maybe keeping volume reasonably low and only exercising twice/week would solve this.
Korte's program interested me because it is so simple, and the fact that he advocates squats/deads every workout, which is rarely seen in most programs.

Another solution would be to alternate the squats/deads, but I don't want to do this unless I have to.
 
I did squats and deads together in my last cycle, and it wasn't too bad, until the end of the 5s. Then I split them up. This cycle (cutting) I'm doing one set of one and full sets of the other, alternating each workout.

So in the 10s, it's 1 set squats, 2 sets deads, then next time, 1 set deads, 2 sets squats.

In the 5s, it will be 1 set deads, 3 sets squats, and vice-a-versa. I think this will work nicely for me.
 
That looks very interesting. When I repied to your post, I didn't realize I was in the Strength Training Forum. I was just thinking about squat and DL in HST training.

I did Rippetoe for a few weeks, before getting the flu. His plan does squats and DL each workout, but always 3 sets of squats and 1 set of DLs.
 
I did squat and SLDL in every workout with my first HST cycle and got good results.

I don't see why one couldn't unless they were working for maximum poundages EVERY workout. Seems to me that doing some rows with that would make it into a full body workout of sorts.
 
On the page, he poses the question --- "You will squat, bench and deadlift in every workout. Yes - you squat, bench and deadlift three times a week. That’s too much? How do you know? Have you ever tried it?"

Yes, I've tried it. Result was that I got injured. Fortunately, it wasn't serious, but never again for me
 
Good point, steve. I guess there is nothing better than trying it. I will probably aim for a twice/week instead of his suggested 3/week for more recovery between workouts. If things get to hard on my lower back, I will have to do deads once/week like many others do.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Jan. 27 2007,16:47)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Good point, steve.  I guess there is nothing better than trying it.  I will probably aim for a twice/week instead of his suggested 3/week for more recovery between workouts.  If things get to hard on my lower back, I will have to do deads once/week like many others do.</div>
Well, I was speaking for myself, not you.  If I were you, I think I'd actually give Korte's program a shot, but if you do start to notice the slightest problem (such as what I experienced), stop doing it immediately.  

I actually experienced this doing a HST maximum effort day (the 6th day of my 5 rep 2 week cycle).  I went from what my body was barely capable of doing on deads and then straight on to squats (with appropriate warm ups).  Was too much for my lower back.  

On top of the injury, I was just getting burned out as I got close to my max days.  Perhaps that wouldn't happen with only 3 exercises to deal with, but I think I'd still have the same risk of injury.
 
Today I did an H.I.T. style workout for fun. I noticed with the 14 day SD and the submax loads so far (4 weeks of 80%, 90%, 100% and 110% of my 10 rm.) this cycle I have lost a little strength. I think it is mostly neural as my muscles are as big as ever.

Deads- 130k (286 lb.s) x 5 reps
Squats- 120K (264 lb.s) x 8 reps
Dips- 225 lb.s x 6 reps (loads include bodyweight for dips and chins)
Chins- 205 lb.s x 8 reps
Seated Press- 75K (165 lb.s) x 6 reps

I am going to change my workout mid-cycle and start doing the above full-body workout twice/week. Instead of reps to failure though I will cluster my reps in order to get the volume up and manage fatigue. I let you guys know how it goes.

I feel exercising for pure appearance is fading for me and my goals are much more strength oriented now.
 
I have a long torso...the effects being that I need to deadlift sumo-style, but my lower back has been naturally strong since childhood, supporting my freaky long torso!
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  My thighs are the weakest link in my deadlift, but squats have helped them come a long way.  I felt great doing the HIT workout with deads and squats back to back, although I can already tell my glutes will be sore tomorrow!*
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*-BIG-ASS-SYNDROME may develop as so many big powerlifters hypertrophy the gluteus maximus from doing alot of heavy squats and deads...like stevejones!
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Neither can I, but I do standing for the core work, to help with the deads and squats. I'm hoping they'll help my shoulders too, since I've been lazy about rehabilitating them.
 
Hey Sci,

In both the Rippetoe Starting Strength book and the journal about the guy trying to get 800-pound deadlift that I believe Bulldog posted in the deadlift analysis thread talked about something called the Westside method.

Might want to look into that. I am gonna start looking into it myself as well. Liege? Any comments?
 
At 60-70% of 1RM maxes, the volume is not a problem with the 3 x 3 if you are healthy.
Remember, it is designed not for body building, but powerlifting.
You will get VERY strong with this program.
Set goals and then try it.
Two buddies of mine did it and they ended up about 30% beyond their 1RM plus the percentages you tack on to your 1RM b4 you determine your 62-72% numbers.
 
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(nipponbiki @ Jan. 28 2007,05:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey Sci,

In both the Rippetoe Starting Strength book and the journal about the guy trying to get 800-pound deadlift that I believe Bulldog posted in the deadlift analysis thread talked about something called the Westside method.

Might want to look into that. I am gonna start looking into it myself as well. Liege? Any comments?</div>
I've never done a powerlifting type of program, so I have no experience to comment on.
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They do have some of the strongest powerlifters at Westside though.

Have you used a Westside type routine stevejones?
 
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(liegelord @ Jan. 28 2007,17:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(nipponbiki @ Jan. 28 2007,05:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey Sci,

In both the Rippetoe Starting Strength book and the journal about the guy trying to get 800-pound deadlift that I believe Bulldog posted in the deadlift analysis thread talked about something called the Westside method.

Might want to look into that. I am gonna start looking into it myself as well.   Liege? Any comments?</div>
I've never done a powerlifting type of program, so I have no experience to comment on.
sad.gif
  They do have some of the strongest powerlifters at Westside though.

Have you used a Westside type routine stevejones?</div>
Yes, and I think Westside is great. However, I don't like it as much as a Progressive Resistance program.
 
A good Westside introduction and routine can be found in the Westside for Skinny Viking Bastards thread by VikingMan on bb.com. Aimed more at bbers than competitive power lifters, but still a strong strength orientation.

You can get a lot of information just by reading the first page. Yeah, I know it's bb.com, but VikingMan is solid, and besides is a lot stronger than me. I think he went from pulling upper 200s to mid-500s in about a year! He tends to watch the thread and respond helpfully to questions also.

I should note that Westside is not a cookie cutter, and presupposes that you are not a beginner.
 
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