Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by HST_Rihad, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    That still has nothing to do with the study. If that was what the study had said, they would have put it in the abstract. I'm not quoting the actual study here, if you want to read the full study, go find it.

    Furthermore... if you are saying that if you eat your maintenance + calories needed for muscle, then extra calories go to fat... well, no crap. Obviously. I don't think anyone is suggesting that increasing calories leads to an infinite amount of possible muscle being gained alongside an infinite amount of fat because that would just be stupid.

    Whatever, I'm not wasting my time debating you anymore, it's like debating with a small chair. You know it's not listening.
  2. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    In replying to me, you do realize I was copying Brad's email, don't you? Ok, never mind. I think all he was saying is that extra calories never augment the speed of muscle building, that phenomenon either happens or it doesn't, being a slow process. Furthermore, one who thinks his conclusion is incorrect should logically be the one to be wanting to prove so. As he said, his work is open for (educated) debate. Given several contradicting opinions, why do you think I'm not listening?
  3. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    There's another very interesting questioning point regarding 24-hour fast. Quoting Bryan:

    The research implied by Bryan probably involved simple caloric restriction, with no periods of fasting. I wonder if it still applies to fasting.

    So if one has 20 lbs of fat, they will only be able to provide him with no more than 620 kcals per day. The remaining ~1500 should come from stored liver glycogen, and having depleted that, muscles?.. I asked Brad about this, let's see what he says.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  4. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    He replied:
    Me: "Brad, does your fasting recommendation take into account research stating that body can only provide us with 31 kcals per pound of fat per day, while the rest needs to come from LBM?"
    Brad: "Yes and no.

    I wrote the theory of fat availability for ESE and for Adonis as a way to describe how to diet considering that there will always be a finite limit to how much fat can escape a fat cell at any given time. However, the number 31 Kcals per pound of fat is not a static number as it changes depending on many factors.

    So yes - based on the theory of fat availability but no, not based on a finite number of 31."
  5. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    Wow...what a waste of time reading this thread.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
  6. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Amen Dog!!
  7. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    So nobody else wastes time reading the thread, here is a summary:

  8. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I'd sig-quote your post if it wouldn't extend every thread by 4 pages ;)
  9. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Also, this is one of the stupidest arguments I've read on these forums. It lacks strength in premise, context, evidence, contingency and conclusion.

    I know you feel a personal connection with Bryan, Blade, Martin and Brad, but attacking someone entirely unrelated to the discussion, basing that attack entirely on their looks is beyond inappropriate.
  10. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Why attacking? Everyone's free to compare looks of others and share their opinions. At least I didn't call names as some of your idols may have. And I'm not talking behind Lyle's back as there's nothing to be aggravated about, just an opinion: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=21277
    And why do you keep listing Bryan, Blade, Martin and Brad as my idols list? Is this because I haven't yet listed you among them? No problem absolutely, you're hereby granted the right to be named my idol: Bryan, Blade, Martin, Brad, AlexAustralia. Totentanz, Sci, are you with us? Hurry, jump on the bandwagon!

    p.s.: please let's keep this a civilized discussion, it wouldn't do anyone good to gnash their teeth.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  11. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Regarding yourself, I refer to then as your idols because .. da da da daaaaa .. you idolise them in your posts. It isn't a crime, it doesn't make you a bad person however quoting opinions doesn't make for an argument. Whatever any of them have to say holds the strength of evidence it based upon

    The argument you made was that Martin must know more//be 'more correct'//should be followed etc because of how he looks, relative to Lyle's appearance/physicality.

    Said argument lacks for validity in premise, context, evidence, contingency and conclusion.

    As Lyle said when pointedly correcting you, a coach can only be judged by the results of their trainees.

    Furthermore, you made that post. No one else did. The civility was withdrawn by your own actions. I could care less if you like me/listen to me/think about me, but many of us here prefer that the discussions of the forums continue the guiding philosophy that Bryan began; evidence-based hypertrophy training.

    The term 'evidence' cannot be interchanged with personal opinion. This is what drew the ire of Totentanz regarding Brad's inability to properly interpret the study he quoted. Deciding 2 + 2 = 5 doesn't make it so, regardless of the interpretive position one takes, 2 + 2 will always = 4.

    Similarly, you must eat a caloric surplus to build muscle. You must be in a caloric deficit to have a net loss of body fat. Eating partioning into 'feeding' and 'fasting' time periods doesn't alter this. It's possible that IF protocols optimise the ratio of muscle:fat when in surplus, similarly they may optimise the ratio of muscle retained: fat lost when in deficit, but you can't cheat mathematics.

    Anyway, I'm with Totentanz ... rational and reasonable debate isn't happening.

    Tangent - the name of the coach in the photo is Jerry Tarkanian. He is responsible for the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament win with the highest score and largest victory margin, coaching the UNLV 'Runnin' Rebels. It's also irrelevant as to whether or not he played professional basketball.
  12. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Thank you.
  13. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Bump. Just seeing if anyone is awake out there.
  14. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Hi, all. Doing fine here, although not following LeanGains or Eat Stop Eat in the strict sense after a few attempts at both, simply been cutting calories by approximately limiting a bit the amount of food eaten and maintaining protein in the daily 70-120 g range, not paying attention how much carbs or fats I take (normally little fats). I attempt to always eat 5 times a day at 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm, and 10pm (you can actually see a 12/12 LeanGains setup there if you really want to :)). This way I never feel the hunger, and from what I've read in Lyle's work 2.5-3 hrs interval between meals actually makes body more sensitive to protein "waves". It's been a month since I've started experimenting with this eating less stuff, all I know for sure is that I'll never be this fat again. Skinfold measurements with a caliper are a bit tricky to do accurately at the moment because I can still easily grab my belly fat with my palm - it's that big, but not significantly more than 18% as per JP/3 or JP/4 protocols. Here's my daily measurement log of body weight in kg and waist circumference in cm (without sucking the thing in, both done first thing after morning bathroom)

    20130314 100cm 80 (14-25 SD'ing and playing with leangains 14/10)
    20130328 97.0cm 77.6
    20130329 96.5cm 77.3 (after ESE)
    20130330 97.0cm 77.7
    20130331 96.5cm 77.4
    20130401 96.0cm 76.8 (after ESE)
    20130402 96.0cm 76.8
    20130403 95.5cm 76.6
    20130404 95.5cm 76.4
    20130405 95.3cm 76.3
    20130406 95.3cm 76.4
    20130407 95.0cm 76.0
    20130408 95.0cm 76.3
    20130409 94.9cm 76.3
    20130410 94.5cm 75.5
    20130411 94.0cm 75.5
    20130412 93.5cm 75.4
    20130413 93.5cm 75.4

    176->166 lbs, 39.3"->36.8" for our American friends.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013

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