Lets talk about diets

[Techo]

Hi all,
As you may have seen in the general forum (see Fat Inferno?) , I'm desperately trying to shed some fat so I can actually begin bulking =)
I would like to know what you all think would be the best for dieting in terms of fat loss. Up until abuot five minutes ago I didn't even know what TKD stood for, so I'm pretty new to the dieting scene. I'm currently weighing about 159 @18%. I've attempted to start cutting out carbs and have been able to get below 100g/day. I'm also in a calorie deficit... Basically, would I be wasting my time with TKD or CKD? Should I just be taking in about 1500/cal/day for a deficit? I'd really like to know what you all think... I just need the most effecient means to rid fat ASAP - diet wise. Thanks in advance..

 

[Lars]

I believe the answer to your question is fuzzier than you would like it to be. The best diet is the one you can stay on for a prolonged period of time, and which helps you stay on a calorie deficit without too much problems. Oh - and it must help you get enough protein.

Now, that been said, I've had great success with CKD in the past. But...you need to eat/drink some rather yucky stuff and usually go waaaay below 100g carbs/day.

When you get to around 10% BF I would recommend you look at Lyle's UD 2.0, but not before. You would probably want to add some muscle to your frame before going that low anyway.

 

[Techo]

Fuzzy or not, thanks for the reply Lars =)

I kind of expected an answer like that anyway since even some aspects of HST are individually based...

Heh, waaay below 100g?? Yeah, according to my reading it needs to be like 20-30grams - that's insane!! Still, I think I will attempt TKD. I read some other posts and people seemed to think that was better for workouts - althought you don't get the leptin bonus? Can't you also still can some benefits by going under 100g/day tho not as much as true keto?

Thanks for lettig me know about UD2. I've heard ppl talk about it but wasn't quite ready to shell out the cash even though it is very reasonably priced...

Now, just a couple other things I'd like to clear up.

1) TKD - Is it just: lower daily carbs to 20-30g/day and take carbs before/during/and/or/after workouts? That's basically all there is to it right?

2) Carbing up. By the name I would think that just means eating some carbs (50g+) to give you some glycogen. Is that right? If so, I saw some ppl ate smarties and skittles. Should I "Carb Up" with this candy or via other means?

3) You mentioned being in a deficit and CKD. But I'm still not sure if keto diets are okay to combine w/a deficit. I'm already trying to take in ~1500 cal/day as I mentioned - Is it okay to have a deficit and keto going at the same time??

I'm already trying to go into keto so hopefully I'll hear from you or someone else soon =)

Thanks in advance!

 

[Lars]

1) Approximately. But...there's not, as far as I know, any real benefits from ketosis, so...If you want to do yourself a favor, buy Lyle's book on keto diets. There are several reasons for that, a) you get the whole picture, b) It's actually a good reference, and c) if Lyle gets paid, Lyle works. When Lyle works, he writes an interesting book BTW: You won't go that low on a TKD, but you won't have the binge...uhm...carb load. When I did my CKD I was usually between 5-20g carbs per day.

2) Carbing up is overcompensating. With my apetite I eat pasta and bread until I can barely walk. On a TKD there is no carbing up, but you do eat some carbs around your workout.

3) I think 1500 is too low on any diet, but you know your body better than I do. Even on a keto diet, the same principles holde - eat less than you burn and you'll lose weight. Ketosis is, apparantly, though some people (including me) experience a greatly improved fat loss.

Lyle's keto book is now selling as an e-book. Do yourself a favor and get it. Otherwise, just go low carb.

 

[::Pixel.Freak::]

I think the main benefits to keto are:
* Less hunger
* More energy

Quote[/b] ]3) I think 1500 is too low on any diet, but you know your body better than I do. Even on a keto diet, the same principles holde - eat less than you burn and you'll lose weight. Ketosis is, apparantly, though some people (including me) experience a greatly improved fat loss.

My maitenance calories is about 2300 per day. If I were to reduce caloreis to say 1800, I would lose weight for the first 2 weeks then plataue. I'f I drop calories to say 1500 per day I find I can continue losing about 500g per week for ages without any problem.

The weird thing is that I'm not anywhere close to single digits but I still plataue very quickly.

:ixel.Freak::

 

[Techo]

ok I *think* I just have one more question.....

When counting carbs, should I look at total carbs or net carbs? I'm confused as I see some 'low carb' products boast "only 3 net carbs" but when I read the label there's like 20g+. Are net carbs only for Atkins or can I use them in TKD as well??

 

[Lars]

If ketosis is an issue for you, experimentation is a must. Some people react to the carb substitutes (glycerol, isn't it ?) while some don't. Some people react to diet drinks while some don't.

If you're doing a TKD, the main issue is to stay in ketosis except for your workout. If you can eat 80g total, 40g total, can handle glycerol or not, etc is really not something anyone can answer for you - but there is a formula to calculate how much you should ingest before/under your workout.

I just basically lived on whipping cream, flax seed oil, mince and protein powder for 6 months. There were lots of foods I couldn't handle, so I just played it safe...

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] ixel.Freak:: @ Jan. 03 2004,3:15)]I think the main benefits to keto are:
* Less hunger
* More energy

If your lucky, these will be a benefit, not everyone gets this effect (lack of hunger) and for others keto makes them feel tired and horrid

Quote[/b] ]You mentioned being in a deficit and CKD. But I'm still not sure if keto diets are okay to combine w/a deficit.

If you do not create a deficit, you will lose only water (glycogen associated etc)
you need to have a deficit to lose fat (at an decent rate) you can lose fat at maintenance, but it will be a extremely slow pace.

 

[Techo]

OK I made under 30 grams yesterday - wow that was hard. My ketostick read that I had a trace of ketones last night... Now as I look to the future I'm confused with my options.

Lars, you gave me a pretty good idea of what you ate, but did you have any other options? Anyone else? What did you eat on keto diets? I'm still not counting 'net carbs' and this is very difficult.

I was gonna Skittle up before my workout in a few hours, but since my ketones are so weak I think I'll risk muscle weakness....

 

[Techo]

Quote[/b] ]I was gonna Skittle up before my workout in a few hours, but since my ketones are so weak I think I'll risk muscle weakness....

Let's talk about this a bit more - Skittles candy... I heard that some people on TKD get their 50grams of carbs from Sweet Tarts and/or Skittles. I have a workout later today in which I was planning on "Skittling up" about a half hour before the workout.

The package says about 240 calories, 50 grams of carbs and ~20+ grams of sugar. Should I count the grams of sugar as carbs? So that would in effect be 70 grams of carbs? Or do I just count the total carbs listed on the package?

Also, as far as I know - I have yet to experience keto-breath alhtough my urine does have a slightly abnormal oder and the ketosticks read a "small" measure of ketones. Is keto-breath necessary to be in ketosis? Or could I be in ketosis the whole time w/out it?

 

[Cylus]

Nah, you just count the total amount of carbs on there minus the fiber so it'd still be 54g for normal Skittles. Additionally, packages will include the sugar alcohol content, if present, which you don't necessarily have to count.

 

[Bryan Haycock]

Quote[/b] (Techo @ Jan. 02 2004,9:02)]I just need the most effecient means to rid fat ASAP - diet wise. Thanks in advance..

I know you are looking to diet to do the trick, but don't forget that cardio/exercise is really the way to drop fat and keep muscle. I have had clients (including myself) stop losing fat on nearly zero carbs and what seems like zero calories. I've also used every diet trick there is. Lyle and I would talk for hours going over diets and whatever research there was to unravel the big picture. In the end it comes down to eat less than you burn to burn fat, and train in whatever fasion builds muscle the fastest to keep muscle.