Lifespan, Caloric Intake, and Weight on the frame

Tom Treutlein

New Member
Okay, so I've heard in the past that caloric intake is inversely proportional to one's lifespan. I don't know how true this is, but it seems very probable. Supposedly the organs work harder, ingesting 20xBW in calories and such. I was planning to eat this much to put on mass and gain strength. I'm a mesomorph.

Anyway, hearing this bothered me. A lot. Then I found out about how Arnold had quadruple bypass surgery, and all of the BBers from that day and age were extremely unhealthy. Whether this is from 'roid abuse or just having too much mass on one's frame, I don't know. Case in point, this issue really bothers me. I don't want to put on tons of mass, knowing this could be my fate.

Is there truth to this? Is this why Yates, Coleman, Arnie and/or others were/are unhealthy as time went on? Due to all the mass? Is eating this many cals that bad for you? It can't be good to ingest so much, can it?

What about weight on the frame? I'm 6', a mesomorph, 17 year old male, 172 lbs. or so. Not sure on bodyfat. 10% maybe? What would become dangerous at my frame?

This sucks.
 
Not to over amplify your pre-existing paranoia but YUP your gonna die, it's inevitable.

But I don't think it will be from adding too much lean mass. Most assumptions on BMI Risks and Health are assuming the larger BMI is from obesity, not musculature.

Hell O&G is well.... Old and Grey and he aint dead, he posts here quite frequently, unless perhaps he's a
.................Ghost Writer
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If you are eating mostly nutrititous foods, I can't see how a surplus of vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants would cause you to die sooner.

Life is very short. Don't stress out over little things. Eat, lift, and have fun while you are here.
 
I know the ratings for BMI are bunk when it comes to an athlete or someone will excess muscle mass. The normal rating is for the average person.

I know I'll die...eventually.
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Regardless of that, the idea of all that extra mass causing problems for so many others in the past is kind've frightening. What caused all their problems, then?
 
Just to clarify, Arnold did NOT have a bypass operation. He had an operation to repair a defective valve in his heart, which was congenital. It had nothing to do with bodyweight, steriods, or anything else relating to bodybuilding. No arterial problems that I am aware of, and he is not on any heart or blood pressure medication.
 
I read an article recently about these people who are doing what is known as a Caloric Restriction Diet (google this term for more information) - they basically eat very little (males are eating around 1500 calories per day). The idea is that it boosts their immune system, protects against debilitating diseases, and increases their lifespans. In the article I read the men (and they were all men) were very very careful about their dietary intakes - it wasn't like they were eating a slice of pizza every day. They made sure they had a good macronutrient breakdown, including adequate levels of protein, EFAs and low GI carbohydrates, and they ate vitamin supplements for any deficiencies there. The guys in the article said they haven't once been ill since undertaking the diet, they all said their doctors had told them they had the fitness levels of guys in their early 20s (they were all 45+ years old), and they all looked really young, if a little scrawny. On the down side, they all said that they are always hungry... Oh, the basis for this diet is research on various mammals that found that caloric-restrictive diets resulted in longer average lifespans, and apparently it does apply to humans too...
 
LBM will not hurt you. However, acheiving it by inducing significant chemical imbalances is not a good thing in the long term. The "old time" bodybuilders in the 60's and 70's who only did light cycles, compared to their counterparts today, are still healthy.

And yes, the last time I checked, my heart was still beating although I may be a little bit senile.
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I read somewhere, will try and find article, that the less calories one can get away with, is better overall for the system. Now I read into this that for my goals I try and not take anymore than I need for growth and try and avoid the 20+x BW stuff and then have to do reduced cals etc. I think The Eating for Size is right on and would just start adding up to the +500 and back off when fat starts. Seems to make sense.
 
Most all the research have been on Mice, Primates or other Animals and have not been indentified as beneficial to humans, YET.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The retardation of aging by caloric restriction: its significance in the transgenic era.

Barger JL, Walford RL, Weindruch R.

Wisconsin Primate Research Center and Department of Medicine, University of Wisconsin Madison, Madison, WI 53705, USA.

The retardation of aging and diseases by caloric restriction (CR) is a widely-studied and robust phenomenon. Recent publications describe transgenic and other mutant rodents displaying lifespan extension, and the rapid pace at which these animals are being generated raises the possibility that the importance of the CR paradigm is declining. Here we discuss these models and evaluate the evidence whether or not the aging process is retarded based on longevity, disease patterns and age-associated biological changes. A comparison to rodents on CR is made. Because CR has been investigated for approximately 70 years with increasing intensity, there exists extensive data to document aging retardation. In contrast, for nearly all of the genetically abnormal models of lifespan extension, such data are minimal and often unconvincing; additional studies will be required to validate these strains as suitable models for aging research.

Here are two reviews that explain the why and if.

Calorie restriction and aging: review of the literature and implications for studies in humans

How does Calorie Restriction Work?
 
It is the excess protein that reduces your lifespan.
And the “above excess” fat that will kill you faster .
I don’t have a heart, just a pumping gizzard. ;)
 
Efficacy of nutritional supplements used by athletes.
Beltz SD, Doering PL.
Department of Pharmacy, Shands Hospital, Gainesville, FL.
Findings on the efficacy of nutritional supplements used by athletes are reviewed. Many athletes have turned away from anabolic steroids and toward nutritional supplements in the hope of gaining a competitive edge without threatening their health. Athletes may require slightly more protein than sedentary people do to maintain positive nitrogen balance, but it is dubious whether extra dietary protein will help someone to achieve athletic goals. Purified amino acids have become a popular if expensive form of protein supplementation; there is no scientific evidence, however, to support their use. Excessive protein supplementation can lead to dehydration, gout, liver and kidney damage, calcium loss, and gastrointestinal effects. Supplementation with vitamins and minerals in excess of recommended daily allowances appears to have no effect on muscle mass or athletic performance. Other substances touted as having ergogenic properties are carnitine, cobamamide, growth hormone releasers, octacosanol, and ginseng; again, there is no reliable scientific evidence to support claims that products containing these compounds have ergogenic potential, and heavy supplementation may lead to adverse effects. Nutritional supplements are promoted through unsubstantiated claims by magazine advertisements, health food stores, coaches, and other sources. The FDA considers nutritional supplements to be foodstuffs, not drugs, and therefore has not required that they be proved safe and effective. Dosage guidelines are inadequate, and quality control is poor. The FDA has begun to revise regulations governing labeling and health claims for these products. There is little if any evidence that nutritional supplements have ergogenic effects in athletes consuming a balanced diet, and some products have the potential for harm.
===============================================
Nutritional supplements to increase muscle mass.
Clarkson PM, Rawson ES.
Department Exercise Science, University of Massachusetts, Amherst 01003, USA.
Although nutritional supplements purported to increase muscle mass are widely available at health food stores, gyms, by mail order, and over the Internet, many of these supplements have little or no data to support their claims. This article reviews the theory and research behind popular nutritional supplements commonly marketed as muscle mass builders. Included are the minerals chromium, vanadyl sulfate, and boron, the steroid hormone dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), beta-methyl-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB), creatine, protein supplements, and amino acids. Research has shown that chromium vanadyl sulfate, and boron do not appear to be effective in increasing lean body mass. The few studies examining DHEA have not supported the claim of increased muscle gain. Preliminary work on HMB supports an anticatabolic effect, but only one human study is currently available. Many studies reported increased body mass and several have reported increased lean body mass following creatine ingestion. This weight gain is most likely water retention in muscle but could also be due to some new muscle protein. Although athletes have a greater protein requirement than sedentary individuals, this is easily obtained through the diet, negating the use of protein supplements. Studies on amino acids have not supported their claim to increase growth hormone or insulin secretion. Nutritional supplements can be marketed without FDA approval of safety or effectiveness. Athletes who choose to ingest these supplements should be concerned with unsubstantiated claims, questionable quality control, and safety of long-term use.
 
Sonny, There is little to no scientific evidence that PROVES excess protein is the root of this evil. Even you're beloved RDA which is based on DRI is not sure. If you truly would like to know read the DRI, I am pasting a link.
Read Chapters 10 and 11.
<a href="http://books.nap.edu/books/0309085373/html/index.html" target="_blank">Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids (Macronutrients) (2002)
</a>

Hell your own links tell you this
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Although this may be a very real concern for individuals at risk for liver or kidney disease, (where high protein diets may accelerate tissue damage) there is no strong evidence indicating a safety concern for healthy individuals.

And the reference to Gout and Diahrea was from this onestudy

Anderson SA, Raiten DJ, eds. Safety of amino acids used as dietary supplements. Bethesda, MD: Life Science Research Office, Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, 1991.

Maybe you would want to read these also

<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7550257" target="_blank">Do athletes need more dietary protein and amino acids?
</a>

Macronutrient considerations for the sport of bodybuilding
 
I'm fairly confident he won't read those, because he KNOWS better.

Sonny, instead of just saying STUFF, say things that at least aren't directly OPPOSED by science, if not supported by it.
 
1. It would be nearly impossible to do a human study to account for activity and BMR and for it to be longitudinal (way too many controls to look at)
2. UCP theory is gaining more support versus CR
3. Body weight regardless of kcal's is above and beyond the premier marker for longevity.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Cliner9er @ Nov. 30 2004,9:19)]3. Body weight regardless of kcal's is above and beyond the premier marker for longevity.
and the fact that excess muscle mass isnt that great for the body structure anyway :)

Sonny,

if you cannot understand research, why bother posting it?
 
anything above the norm
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it starts to get complicated, as exercise increases life expectations, but size can reduce it.. so in the end you may live as long or longer than a fat schmoe, but you may not live as long as you were potentially capable of, if you were lean yet small...

size has a whole bunch of other problems with it (excess size that is....Im a not lean ~264 @ 5'8&quot; and it aint all a bed of roses :))
 
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