Liver taxed... Need help

Discussion in 'Anything and Everything about dietary supplements' started by imported_daxie, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. Had my blood tested, all was good, except...

    My PT/OT-levels for the liver were a little high...

    The doc asked if I took any vitamin supps, and I said I only take protein supps...

    He asked if that had any added vitamins/minerals... I said, well, kind of (as you can see, vitamin levels can be quite high on some supps)...

    So he asked me to stop taking them... (I thought, noooo :))

    Question is:

    Is there any way I can enhance my liver without sacrificing my supps? Any herbs, drinks, natural food stuff that would help it?

    I don't drink, and eat healthy, so I don't think I tax my liver that much...

    I don't have exact numbers yet (got this through phone) but willl see to them when I get them

    Thanks!

    Daxie
     
  2. Staxx

    Staxx New Member

  3. baby a

    baby a New Member

    Had you trained in the 48hrs before you had your blood drawn? I remember seeing a study one time that showed elevated PT levels for up to a couple days after intense training.
     
  4. yes, baby a, got blood tuesday morning, last training before that was monday evening!

    Do you have any link to such a study?

    anyways, I'm going to keep up the supplement input, gonna check the local nature shop for something to help, and will make sure the check up is more than 48 hours after training.

    Thnx!

    daxy
     
  5. precious_roy

    precious_roy New Member

    Absolutly agree. Milk Thistle is great for liver support. I actually take somewhere in the 1000mg range, which is slightly high for someone not taking methylated steroids, but you can't live without your liver!
     
  6. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Food for thought...

    ***********************************************
    Milk thistle: Good for livers, potentially bad for gains

    Title: Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclear localization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP.

    Authors: Zhu W, Zhang JS, Young CY.

    Source: Carcinogenesis 2001 Sep;22(9):1399-403

    Summary:
    Agents with novel mechanisms of blocking androgen receptor (AR) function may be useful for prostate cancer prevention and therapy. Previous studies showed that silibinin (SB), the major active component of Milk Thistle, could inhibit cell proliferation of a human prostate cancer cell line by stoping the cell cycle without causing cell death. This study further demonstrates the potential molecular mechanism by which milk thistle acts on androgen-responsive prostate cancer cells by inhibiting function of the AR. We observed that Silymarin (SM) and SB inhibited androgen-stimulated cell proliferation as well as androgen-stimulated secretion of both prostate-specific antigen (PSA) and human glandular kallikrein (hK2).

    Additionally, for the first time, we show that SM and SB diminished transactivation activity of the AR. However, SM did not affect AR levels and steroid-binding ability of total AR in western blotting and ligand-binding assays. Intriguingly, we found that nuclear AR levels are significantly reduced by SM and SB in the presence of androgens. This study provides a new insight into how milk thistle negatively modulates androgen action in prostate cancer cells.


    Discussion:
    Milk Thistle is a popular bodybuilding supplement and is currently the most well researched plant for the treatment of liver disease (with over 450 published peer review papers). Silymarin, a flavonoid extract from milk thistle, has been used clinically for alcoholic liver disease treatment in Europe and Asia for almost 2000 years. Currently it used by bodybuilders as a protective measure for the liver when using high doses of orals.

    Silymarin is not water soluble and is typically administered as an encapsulated standardized extract. The absorption with oral administration is rather low with only two to three percent being effectively taken up. The peak plasma levels after an oral dose are achieved in four to six hours.

    The reason this study is significant is because of the described mechanism that milk thistle is working in the prostate. It is showing effectiveness in treating prostate cancer because it prevents the androgen receptor from making it to the nucleus of the cell. This may be good if you are fighting cancer of the prostate, but it is bad if you are trying to get a muscle cell to grow larger.

    In order for testosterone to work, it must pass from the blood to the inside of a muscle cell, bind to the androgen receptor inside the cell, then travel inside of the nucleus where it binds to your DNA.

    These researchers were able to show that milk thistle did not reduce the number of androgen receptors, nor did it prevent androgens (i.e. testosterone) from binding to the receptors. All it seemed to do was prevent the androgen receptor from traveling to the nucleus, and in our case, this prevents the desired effect. The androgen receptor once bound to the androgen, must make it to the nucleus in order to increase protein synthesis.

    Bottom line, use milk thistle if you are sure you are having liver toxicity problems. Then only use it for a few weeks at a time. There are other herbs with tremendous hepatoprotective effects so you might give them a try instead.
     
  7. precious_roy

    precious_roy New Member

    Intriguing. What are some of the alternatives?
     
  8. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Milk thistle and Picrorhiza (kutkin), are the best-researched plants for the treatment of liver disease. These plants appear to be potnetially beneficial in the treatment of liver poisoning, viral hepatitis, and cirrhosis of the liver. The research on turmeric, green tea, and licorice root is much less complete. However, those human clinical studies which exist, in addition to animal research and in vitro studies, support their use in the prevention and treatment of liver disease.

    I would suggest however that before you go a begin a long term treatment with any of these, that you investigate their mechanism of action. It is important to remember that the most potent protectors against the negative side effects of androgens are those that block androgenic activity.
     
  9. Funny thing is I never used androgens or what so ever...

    Only simple protein powders... My body sucks.

    Will wait a bit with the milk thistle, and when I have to get a new blood sample with the doc, I'll start with the milk thistle for a month... Hope that helps while still not killing the gains too much.
     
  10. xarfox

    xarfox New Member

    on two occasions i had test results say that i had a high "liver function" not sure if this is the same thing you ended up with

    the first time i was taking creatine and the second time (a few years later) i was on nothing

    i got re-tested a 3rd time by getting an ultrasound for and it went away. i think it was from drinking excessivley (college), but i dont drink much anymore

    i started taking protein supps again, not sure how they are affecting my liver, but i feel pretty healthy :)

    make sure you keep drinking lots of water, people like us need a lot more than the standard 8 glasses
     

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