M1T or the real thing.

[xahrx]

Quote[/b] (MrNasty @ Dec. 06 2004,9:35)]M1T a steroid ...ok... I will agree with you to some degree. I know its been compared to HALOSTAT on many occasions, which in that case M1T fits the bill; Harsh & Dangerous. The only problem though is I rarely hear any accounts of anyone gaining more than 10lbs or so on it. If I'm going to risk all the troubles of normal AAS use with a PH, and for a gain of only 10lbs, I might as well go with AAS.

That's because few people stay on it for very long because it's so poisonous. Two week cycles are the norm when it comes to M1T. That's how fast the gains come too. Anything that can put on nearly 10 lbs of lean bulk in two weeks is serious stuff. The ones who run longer cycles, really foolish in my opinion, gain anywhere from 14 to 20 pounds and can often keep a good deal of those gains. I've seen user write ups that claim gains equal to those of Anadrol and Dianabol.

The problem with M1T, aside from its dangers, is the problem that faces all orals. The people most likely to use all oral cycles are newbies, and they're the ones who aren't going to get much from it because they don't really know what they're doing. They'll mess up the PCT or their diet won't be right, they'll gain and lose or not gain much at all. The fact that it's legal just amplifies this effect

It's not the fact that it's harsh and dangerous that makes it a steroid, it's M1T's chemical structure that makes it a steroid. It's an active hormone, a derrivative of testosterone, with a massive effect on protein synthesis. It needs no conversion to be active, it gets right into your cells and goes to work. There's no argument about it, it is a steroid, peroid. It just happens to be legal currently because of loopholes in the laws up until now.

The decision to go with an injectable cycle is good, that's what I'd do. If your recovery is going to be hard anyway you might as well get the most from the cycle you can. I've got no experience with EQ, but test is beautiful. Probably a good idea to run an AI or SERM while on just to control estrogen. Id' go with the AI.

 

[xahrx]

Quote[/b] (Sphinx @ Dec. 07 2004,1:14)]I do agree that Deca blows! Waste O' Money.
Good luck, happy training, Sphinx.

Deca is safe, which means not too wild, you'll gain a little and not risk much, which fits my profile when using any such substance. As for it blowing, I think it just doesn't fit what you want, which is more bulk/strength in the same time. For those looking for a good mild cycle that will give good gains, deca or deca with an oral on top of it works great.

 

[MrNasty]

Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 08 2004,11:52)]

The decision to go with an injectable cycle is good, that's what I'd do. If your recovery is going to be hard anyway you might as well get the most from the cycle you can. I've got no experience with EQ, but test is beautiful. Probably a good idea to run an AI or SERM while on just to control estrogen. Id' go with the AI.

I was going to ask this question anyway, but since you've been so much help and seem to have the knowledge, I'll direct it towards you ...

Since this is my last cycle, for some time anyway (at least a few years), and I've never used Test over 500mg wk, do you think upping it to a full gram would be wise? My initial plan was 750mg a wk, which I'll most likely stick to, but much worse, if at all, can the sides get at 1g a wk? Given my history, is 1g a wk even necessary. My personally responce tot hat would no, stick with the 750mg a wk. What's yours?

 

[MrNasty]

Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 08 2004,11:57)]

Quote[/b] (Sphinx @ Dec. 07 2004,1:14)]I do agree that Deca blows! Waste O' Money.
Good luck, happy training, Sphinx.

Deca is safe, which means not too wild, you'll gain a little and not risk much, which fits my profile when using any such substance. As for it blowing, I think it just doesn't fit what you want, which is more bulk/strength in the same time. For those looking for a good mild cycle that will give good gains, deca or deca with an oral on top of it works great.

You know I shouldnt have said that about DECA. Even though I really dont like it and will probably never use it again, I have used it several times in the past with grat results. During my first cycle I but on 37lbs with a Deca/Test 8 weeker; from 150lbs to 187lbs. I loved it. I was near 8% BF as well, which only made my experience that much better.

 

[Sphinx]

True, true. Its was more of opinionated post than scientific response. I should have said that for my body, my experience, and my goals Deca didnt really fit in.
Xahrx, your right on also, good point I over looked. I forget others arent ectos looking for size, LOL!
All in all, I like the balance test has. Cost, method of actions, availability, easy sides, ect. Never tried it but would like to work in some tren some time way down the road (I feel with the knowledge Ive gained here I wont want AAS for a long time, Thanks HSF&#33
From my bit of experience and my reading of anicdotal evidence, the dif in sides between 750 and 1g is minimal over all, yet the beni's seem to be greater...odd, I know. Thats why I love science, confirms suspicions and always recreatable.
Sphinx.

 

[MrNasty]

Quote[/b] (Sphinx @ Dec. 09 2004,2:32)]From my bit of experience and my reading of anicdotal evidence, the dif in sides between 750 and 1g is minimal over all, yet the beni's seem to be greater...odd, I know. Thats why I love science, confirms suspicions and always recreatable.
Sphinx.

You really dont think a gram of Test a week is that much different than 750mg a week? I cant see myself doing that much? That's a lot...

 

[Sphinx]

Thats cool, 500-750 is plenty too.
STEHK IT N YUR ARSE! Sorry I just had to.

 

[xahrx]

Quote[/b] (MrNasty @ Dec. 09 2004,12:05)]Since this is my last cycle, for some time anyway (at least a few years), and I've never used Test over 500mg wk, do you think upping it to a full gram would be wise? My initial plan was 750mg a wk, which I'll most likely stick to, but much worse, if at all, can the sides get at 1g a wk? Given my history, is 1g a wk even necessary. My personally responce tot hat would no, stick with the 750mg a wk. What's yours?

I'd say it depends on your last response to 500mg a week. If you were still getting gains from that, 750mg would be fine. If you had a tolerance, 750mg would be good, but a gram would be great. Test isn't too expensive so that ain't a problem. Sides don't tend to be much worse for most, but I have read user experiences where they were. Few and far in between, but still happens occasionally. I'm one of those guys who it can happen to, I'm way sensitive to estrogen. 4AD can give me gyno and at the reccomended dose too, so I couldn't mess around with high doses of aromatizing steroids.

If you handled the 500mgs with a SERM or AI and no sides, I'd say you're probably, stress probably, a guy who can do a gram a week with no problems. The gains will probably be dang good too. You could throw another roid in to control estrogen in addition to the AI/SERM if you want. Leave room for an oral DHT derrivative somewhere in the heaviest part of the cycle perhaps. More strength and additional estrogen control are always good.

 

[MrNasty]

Cool COol, that all sounds nice and all, but my whole plan has been scrapped. It was a go this morning at 5am, as I got up and headed towards the boarder, that is until my clutch went out. It cost me $372 to get back to my house & another $550 to replace the clutch, WTF!!! I'm pissed, and now broke.

I'm going to look around town for my supplies, but it's going to be exspensive - $40 10ml Test e 200mg/ml. With all the money I'm already spending I might just hold off until I can afford to induldge in personal pleasures.

M1T or 1-4AD is looking good right about now. Allsportnutrition.com is having a whoe sale on both. 18.95 for M1T, and 29.99 for 1-4AD. Cheap and Convienent.

I'll let you know what I decide to to...

 

[xahrx]

Quote[/b] (MrNasty @ Dec. 10 2004,3:06)]Allsportnutrition.com is having a whoe sale on both. 18.95 for M1T, and 29.99 for 1-4AD. Cheap and Convienent.
I'll let you know what I decide to to...

Honestly if you're gonna go with the legal, for now, versions I'd go with a transdermal with two orals on top of it. If you want to use M1T I'd suggest using a 3:1, (7.5 grams : 2.5 grams) transdermal of 4AD and 4OHT as a base. Then use whatever orals you want on top of that, but split them up so you're not doing the orals at the same time. Some people start off with anabolics and move to androgens, but I've seen interesting and effective cycles where people start with the androgen, say DHT, and move on to the anabolic later in the cycle with a lot of success. The 4AD/4OHT transdermal helps a lot with the sides of M1T and has a real good effect just by itself.

Also, if you decide to do M1T you're going to want to up the carbs and good fats in your diet by quite a bit as that can fight and even eliminate the lethargy associated with M1T. You may also want to supplement potassium and taurine in addition to usual liver protectants, creatine, etc. People report that the potassium and taurine help a lot with the cramps they experience while on M1T.

 

[MrNasty]

Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 11 2004,2:09)]If you want to use M1T I'd suggest using a 3:1, (7.5 grams : 2.5 grams) transdermal of 4AD and 4OHT as a base.

Tell me more. Got any links to these products? And where do I get the trans gel? Its not DMSO is it? Hook a brother up, and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks...

Oh oh, and incase I run a crossed some test, would it be pointless to use it along with some M1T or 4AD?

 

[xahrx]

Quote[/b] (MrNasty @ Dec. 11 2004,9:58)]

9-->

Quote[/b] (xahrx @ Dec. 11 2004,2

9)]If you want to use M1T I'd suggest using a 3:1, (7.5 grams : 2.5 grams) transdermal of 4AD and 4OHT as a base.

Tell me more. Got any links to these products? And where do I get the trans gel? Its not DMSO is it? Hook a brother up, and I'll see what I can do.
Thanks...
Oh oh, and incase I run a crossed some test, would it be pointless to use it along with some M1T or 4AD?

http://www.powernutrition.net/

you can use the Build Your Own Transdermal option to come up with the exact combination of 4AD and 4OHT I mentioned, or your own mixture. Or you could buy the powders and mix them with some TGel, and those products are available seperately almost anywhere.

Test wouldn't be pointless. I wouldn't use 4AD with it, as they have generally the same effects, 4AD less so obviously. Using test as a base for an M1T cycle would be great, as it would serve the same purpose the 4AD does, but would be much, much better and give a lot of good gains on its own.

The problem with M1T is that it is so poisonous. One thing to consider is the possibility of long term cardiac, vascular and liver damage from M1T use. The dramatic effect it has on blood pressure and lipid profiles is very, very dangerous. There are other methylated steroids out there that are currently legal and are pretty good. High doses of MOHN, anywhere up to 36-48mgs a day, seem to give good results, as do high doses of MDIEN, but blood work from that one seems to be lacking, so it really doesn't even have the barest of safety profiles established. Designer Supplements just released Superdrol, which I believe is a Materon derrivative that is getting some very good feedback, and methylated DHT just hit the wider market too. M1,4, the precursor to Dianabol, gets a lot of good reviews too.

I'd really stay away from M1T. The gains are impressive to say the least, but the dangers associated with it seem to be stacking up so high you have to wonder if it would be worth it even for a pro body builder to mess with it, when alternatives, some just as effective and some less so, are available and are a lot safer.