making the surplus all protein.

[sentricyphen]

will there be an advantage to making the caloric surplus (500 cals in my case) protein? Or would in make more sense to just eat a lower carb %? (such as 40-30-30, instead of 30-40-30)

 

[mikey_270]

I don't think there would be an advantage in adding that much extra protein.

I would just shoot for 1g per pound of bodyweight. Then add enough EFAs to make 25-30% of your total caloric intake to be fat, then fill the rest with carbs.

Also, check out the "Eating for Size" article if you haven't!

Mikey

 

[Lars]

...and also make sure to get *at least* 100g of carbs unless you want to go ketogenic (which is not a good way to add muscle)

 

[imported_dkm1987]

I agree, additional protein is not needed or desired, look at this. Also look at the Bold Section about using FFM to calculate as most do not do this, I doubt it makes much of a difference, but if you know your FFM it's just as easy to compute, without jeffw's mathematical genius

From the FAQ

Quote[/b] ]Actually, most guys take in too much protein. It isn't that too much protein will hurt them - assuming they are healthy to begin with - but too much protein can actually inhibit gains. I know, it sounds totally contradictory to what you read everywhere, but it is true. Let me explain.
The ability of the body to grow is effected by the ratio of protein to carbs. It is an inverted U shaped curve - or bell curve - where the top or highest point of the curve is a ratio of 12-15% protein to carbs (diet consisting of ~15% protein). At one peak you have all carbs, at the other you have all protein. It has to do with thermogenesis and hormones.
So, if a skinny guy wants to gain weight, he needs to plan a diet where he gets 15% of his calories from protein.
Now this may seem contradictory to the general rule of 1 gram per pound bodyweight. I'm not saying that a guy can't gain weight with more than 15% calories from protein, I'm only saying that weight gain is greatest at 15%. He will be ok with an intake of 0.75 grams/pound FFM to gain muscle. In fact, everybody should use FFM instead of bodyweight to plan protein intake, but sometimes it's just too hard to figure it out, so most people use bodyweight.
For a guy who isn't all that skinny, or even a little fat, he should increase his protien intake to 20-25%. This will increase thermogenesis and prevent some fat gain as calories increase above maintenance.

 

[Nemesis7884]

independently how many calories you eat and how great your surpluss is - everything should reflect your macronutrition ratios, your total calorie intake but also your single meals - your macronutrition ratio (ratio of protein, fat, carbs to your total calorie intake) depends on your diet strategy - your diet strategy depends on the fact if your bulking or cutting and which bodytype you are (endo- ekto- mesomorph) as well as your experiences (carb adaption etc..)

 

[jeffw]

Quote[/b] ]an intake of 0.75 grams/pound FFM to gain muscle

My &quot;mathematical genius&quot; (what little there is of it—but, <span style='color:006600'>thanks</span>, in any case, dkm1987) gives way to monumental laziness in situations like these.

Like most everyone here, I have a spreadsheet for HST which I use not only for calculating my weights for each cycle but to record my body weight, body fat percentage and so on. With a few formulas, <span style='colorD0000'>the <span style='colorD5500'>spreadsheet</span> calculates the recommmended amounts of proteins, carbs, supplements and so on</span> based on those measurements (usually body weight), and then, magically, <span style='colorD0000'>recalculates</span> those amounts every time those measurements change. It's not hard to set up; it can't be—I'm even less of a &quot;spreadsheet genius&quot; than a mathematical one.

With no calculations on my part, this little bit of automation leaves me plenty of time to sit back and blithely ignore all its results. (Well, it's somehow comforting to know they're there, at least.)

Right now the formulas calculate based on bodyweight but now, aware of the formula in the quoted excerpt, I'll be changing them, as appropriate, pronto to calculate using FFM.

[Oh, and dkm1987's nice comment notwithstanding, I'd hate to think that my &quot;claim to fame&quot; here rests on figuring out how much fat fits in a brick [!] but, since it obviously ain't gonna be <span style='color:de6800'>incredible HST results</span> or <span style='color:bf00ff'>brilliantly informative posts</span>, maybe I should take what I can get. ]

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (jeffw @ July 23 2004,8:48)]

Quote[/b] ]an intake of 0.75 grams/pound FFM to gain muscle

My &quot;mathematical genius&quot; (what little there is of it—but, <span style='color:006600'>thanks</span>, in any case, dkm1987) gives way to monumental laziness in situations like these.
Like most everyone here, I have a spreadsheet for HST which I use not only for calculating my weights for each cycle but to record my body weight, body fat percentage and so on. With a few formulas, <span style='colorD0000'>the &lt;span style='colorD5500'&gt;spreadsheet</span> calculates the recommmended amounts of proteins, carbs, supplements and so on&lt;/span&gt; based on those measurements (usually body weight), and then, magically, <span style='colorD0000'>recalculates</span> those amounts every time those measurements change. It's not hard to set up; it can't be—I'm even less of a &quot;spreadsheet genius&quot; than a mathematical one.
With no calculations on my part, this little bit of automation leaves me plenty of time to sit back and blithely ignore all its results. (Well, it's somehow comforting to know they're there, at least.)
Right now the formulas calculate based on bodyweight but now, aware of the formula in the quoted excerpt, I'll be changing them, as appropriate, pronto to calculate using FFM.
[Oh, and dkm1987's nice comment notwithstanding, I'd hate to think that my &quot;claim to fame&quot; here rests on figuring out how much fat fits in a brick [!] but, since it obviously ain't gonna be <span style='color:de6800'>incredible HST results</span> or <span style='color:bf00ff'>brilliantly informative posts</span>, maybe I should take what I can get. ]

Come on jeffw you did great, no need to belittle yourself. Your spreadsheet sounds cool, I have one also (I love spreadsheets, just ask my Sales/Marketing Manager )but it doesn't recalc automatically. If you get a chance send me a copy

dkm1987@sbcglobal.net

 

[Nemesis7884]

if you want another &quot;tester&quot; for your spreadsheet I'd appreciate a mail (yeah I am a lazy butt)

nemesis7884@hotmail.com

 

[jeffw]

Aw, heck, guys, I just <span style='color:990000'>made all that spreadsheet stuff up</span>!

No, seriously, I'd be happy to send it to anyone who asks

...but, being an old WordPerfect guy (believe it or not), I'm actually using Quattro Pro, rather than MS Excel.

So, I'll try to do some conversions, see if it works in MS Excel, and if it does, send it out. (I'll let y'all—dkm1987 and Nemesis7884—know either way.)

Posting in public, rather than by IM, just in case anyone else was curious.

Just my sense of humor, Dan! Actually, I am pleased with how I did!

 

[sentricyphen]

Quote[/b] (dkm1987 @ July 23 2004,3:22)]I agree, additional protein is not needed or desired, look at this. Also look at the Bold Section about using FFM to calculate as most do not do this, I doubt it makes much of a difference, but if you know your FFM it's just as easy to compute, without jeffw's mathematical genius

From the FAQ

Quote[/b] ]Actually, most guys take in too much protein. It isn't that too much protein will hurt them - assuming they are healthy to begin with - but too much protein can actually inhibit gains. I know, it sounds totally contradictory to what you read everywhere, but it is true. Let me explain.
The ability of the body to grow is effected by the ratio of protein to carbs. It is an inverted U shaped curve - or bell curve - where the top or highest point of the curve is a ratio of 12-15% protein to carbs (diet consisting of ~15% protein). At one peak you have all carbs, at the other you have all protein. It has to do with thermogenesis and hormones.
So, if a skinny guy wants to gain weight, he needs to plan a diet where he gets 15% of his calories from protein.
Now this may seem contradictory to the general rule of 1 gram per pound bodyweight. I'm not saying that a guy can't gain weight with more than 15% calories from protein, I'm only saying that weight gain is greatest at 15%. He will be ok with an intake of 0.75 grams/pound FFM to gain muscle. In fact, everybody should use FFM instead of bodyweight to plan protein intake, but sometimes it's just too hard to figure it out, so most people use bodyweight.
For a guy who isn't all that skinny, or even a little fat, he should increase his protien intake to 20-25%. This will increase thermogenesis and prevent some fat gain as calories increase above maintenance.

12-15% protein?? Leaving how many carbs, some 70%? I would get so extremely fat doing that. (I've experimented with 60%...)

I do see that it is all about the ratio though.
Its just when you eat as many cals as I do, (4500 to gain a lb a week) I get alot more than 1 x my BW- more like 2.5. -and that is at 30% pro.