Meat & Potatoes

[Tom Treutlein]

Would there be any health drawbacks to using meat and potatoes as a staple (or even as the entire source) of a diet?

Six meals a day, every three hours.

6 oz. steak, and 1.5 potatoes per meal.

20xBW in calories.

Veggies added with every meal.

Mr. X (for those that know of him and his site www.mmsfitness.com) recommends this in his Bulking Up Basics Part I diet plan. He said he did it with great results.

I'm not saying I'm pursuing this, just asking if there are any real issues with it. I have yet to hear anything really conclusive on red meat causing any actual problems, other than digestion which is due to a lack of fiber more than anything else.

The macronutrient ratios end up as 50% protein, 30% carbs and 20% fats.

 

[Sonny]

I posted a thread a while back titled “ To Be A Viking You Have To Eat Like One “
I got a lot of negative comments on it .
However, I know that with my body type I can eat anything I want and have not problem.
Then we have the NEW bodybuilder who have came along here lately and are under the false impression that the have to consume all sorts of supplements to grow.
Which is totally false.
You have everything you need right there at home or at the local grocery store
I would say that if you want to grow larger than you are now, you have to up the calories
To facilitate the additional growth.
Why only Beef and potatoes?
Why not eat all the good foods out there?
I’ve read Brian article on eating big and find it “Not Right” for me .
His protein requirements are way out of line for my body .
I use the .36 X bodyweight to figure my protein intake .
And for me .36 X 215= 77.4 gr of protein daily for my baseline .
I will guarantee that if you consume more than that (+- )all you are going to do is just pee it off.
What I do is determine what my caloric intake is for a week (7 days) .
Keeping very accurate records of all calories consumed and protein.
Then at the end of the seven-day I divide the totals by 7 to give me an average Daily caloric intake.
Now I know my personal dietary profile, which will be my base line to work off of.
Lets say that after I have determines my daily average of calories is 1800 and I want to start to gain all I have to do is just add 100 – 200 additional calories to give me enough to add on some more mass (2000 cal).
Keep adding the cal’s in small amounts over the course of a month or two until you start to get to much fat then stop adding and reduce the intake by 100 or so until you have determined what it takes for your body.
There is nothing magical or mystifying about growing larger. You jjust add a few additional calories to your already exiting diet.
Which to add 100-200 additional cal all you would have to do is eat a peanut butter sandwich with two slices of whole wheat bread.
And for all the opposing replies to this post , I don’t really care because I know that this works for me and all those who have ever given it a honest try .
For some one to try to jack up their protein from 75-100 gr a day to 200-300 is just plain insanity and the same goes for upping the calories to the extreme.
Do it in small increments till you get the results you want.
Thanks
Sonny aka
The Idiotic Imbecile

 

[BoSox]

Quote[/b] ]I use the .36 X bodyweight to figure my protein intake .
And for me .36 X 215= 77.4 gr of protein daily for my baseline .
I will guarantee that if you consume more than that (+- )all you are going to do is just pee it off.

Sonny, if that works for you, that is wonderful, but please don't confuse people by claiming that this is a fact. Because it isn't.

Quote[/b] ]Would there be any health drawbacks to using meat and potatoes as a staple (or even as the entire source) of a diet?

I take it the liquid diet wasn't as fun as you expected? I think there would be drawbacks for having anything so exclusive as a diet. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I didn't have a problem with consuming the shakes all the time. My real issue was with the reliability. It hasn't been tested before, and I'm afraid it won't work and I'd be wasting my time. I'd rather stick with something that is a surefire way to make progress.

Variety is the spice of life, that I know. Assuming the monotony isn't an issue, though, are there any ill effects? I'd assume not - nothing sprung up. Veggies included to give fiber and phytos where necessary (herbs, spices and a fruit or two, also), steak has fats and protein, potatoes add more fiber and carbs.

I think it's good, anyway. Any other opinions?

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Since I was one of, if not the main , antagonist of Sonny's "eat like a viking and save a chicken eat a cow" (PETA must camp on your doorstep

)threads I'll just throw my two cents in here.

Eat how you want, if it's beef, chicken or fish then that's great. I am glad to see Sonny has refined his diet to fit his needs and that's what everyone SHOULD do.

I just agree with both Bosox and Sonny here and say why limit yourself to one source of calories and nutrients, there are way too many to choose from and all have their advantages and disadvantages, just choose wisely and enjoy. Even the potato lover will eventually get sick of potatoes. Mix it up, it's all good

Right Sonny

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Alright, so the only drawback is the repetitiveness of the same food. I'll use eggs in the AM, and maybe bread. I'll probably throw in some ketchup.

Maybe some chicken and brown rice in another meal.

I'll try to mix it up.

Is 20xBW bad, you guys? I mean...I'm a 17 year old meso, and I know it varies from person to person, but I'm wondering if I should just stick with 20x and if I notice the scale move up to quick, cut back on the cals? I'd kinda rather get too much than too little.

 

[Sonny]

Tom Said ……
“Sonny, if that works for you, that is wonderful, but please don't confuse people by claiming that this is a fact. Because it isn't.”
(You are really lost in all the hype Tom)
I will beg to differ.
I’ve been at this for 35 plus years and YES it’s the same for everyone as a starting point to figure their base line.
Go try it out ! The darn US federal government seems to think it is as well .
Us old timers have been doing it for umpteen years with perfect results. Don’t let all the so call Modern knowledge blind your judgment when it’s just a very simple thing
On second thought just do your own research on protein/cal's intake and you to will come to the same conclusion.
We all have the same physiology that’s why in the medical world they can prescribe medicine for a condition knowing that it will work for us all. (With all things being equal.)
What will work for me will work for you in varying degrees of intensity.
If that weren’t true then all the sciences would be void and null.
That’s the presumption for all science like it or not.
You contradict me then in the second breath admit your lack of knowledge in the subject.
I don’t get it !
“is 20xBW bad, you guys? I mean...I'm a 17 year old meso, and I know it varies from person to person, but I'm wondering if I should just stick with 20x and if I notice the scale move up to quick, cut back on the cals? I'd kinda rather get too much than too little.”

Thanks
Sonny

 

[BoSox]

umm...Sonny, try reading the post. Tom didn't say that; I did. You feeling alright?

Quote[/b] ]Us old timers have been doing it for umpteen years with perfect results. Don’t let all the so call Modern knowledge blind your judgment when it’s just a very simple thing

right, you know more than Bryan and Lyle and virtually all other nutrition and physiology experts

Quote[/b] ]We all have the same physiology that’s why in the medical world they can prescribe medicine for a condition knowing that it will work for us all.

awful analogy, since that's just not true. Plenty of medications don't work for a lot of people, but work for a lot of others.

I'm not sure I see what you're getting at. Are you actually arguing that more than .36 g/lb of protein is superfluous? No offense or anything, but if I remember your picture correctly, I wouldn't say your training and diet regimen has brought about "perfect results," not even with a wiiiiide stretch of the imagination. If you are satisfied with your results, than that is awesome; that's what this is all about. But I know that I hope I look much better than that after 35 years of training.

Don't get carried away and take this the wrong way; you are welcome to your opinions and everyone appreciates that you share them; that is the point of a message board after all.

But saying something like "I will guarantee that if you consume more than that (+- )all you are going to do is just pee it off." is awfully ridiculous.

 

[Sonny]

Sorry Tom ………..I would never accuse you of being a BOSOCK’s
I'm not even going to comment to you Bowsox .
You haven't a clue as to what you are saying .
I will not waste my time with you .
But for the others …………….
Its been proven long ago by the FDA in their RDA as to the amounts need for the body.
They have nothing to gain. They don't sell protein, and the entire nutrition community worldwide backs them.
And yes! I don’t care what Brian says if it is out of line with what I know to be true.
“awful analogy, since that's just not true. Plenty of medications don't work for a lot of people, but work for a lot of others.”
If you had enough knowledge to realize that all human bodies are equal .In as much as we all have the same organs, react to the same stimulus and yes the medical world and modern sciences would not exist if we all didn’t have the same common denominators in which to treat our conditions.
If I burn you, you will blister the same as I. Maybe more or maybe less, but nevertheless
Blister you will.
Do you think for one minute that if you had cancer that they would treat you different that the next patient?
NO! They wouldn’t because they know that all humans will react to a certain treatment
In the same way, with the only difference being how much or how little.
If you are stung by a Bee you to will have an allergic reaction and so will the next guys.
You may only experience swelling, but he may go into shock. Still you both reacted to the induced stimuli.
The same hold true to for the over consumption of protein.
FACT: Excessive amounts of protein and cause damage to the liver and kidneys.
FACT: There in no significant benefits from using protein supplements
FACT: Nutritionists have long known how much protein that a Bodybuilder should take for maximum growth. (0.8 grams of protein daily for each kilogram of body weight)
“But saying something like "I will guarantee that if you consume more than that (+- ) all you are going to do is just pee it off." is awfully ridiculous.”
Your statement goes to show you know nothing about protein .
AND THAT is “is awfully ridiculous”
So! Prove me wrong and not with a bunch of cut and paste articles. give me some rock solid proof that I’m wrong and not some speculative babble .
“If you are satisfied with your results, than that is awesome; that's what this is all about. But I know that I hope I look much better than that after 35 years of training.”
Where is your picture and how old are you bigmouth.
I personal want my body fat to be a little high. I know at what percentage of fat
In which my body is at the moment as to my intake levels are at MY optimum
for growth. I’m sure that you don’t have a clue .
Cutting is a bad way to go as it puts too much stress on the system as a whole.
Moreover, I don’t think that a half starved bodybuilder is a very pleasant sight to see .

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (Tom Treutlein @ Nov. 22 2004,5:34)]Is 20xBW bad, you guys? I mean...I'm a 17 year old meso, and I know it varies from person to person, but I'm wondering if I should just stick with 20x and if I notice the scale move up to quick, cut back on the cals? I'd kinda rather get too much than too little.

Tom, this is exactly right, if you notice too much fat gain cut back, if you notice you are not growing eat more.

Edited Note:

Actually instead of cutting back it may be more beneficial to keep the calories a little high and throw some aerobic work in to compensate for the additional Kcals.

 

[Sonny]

Quote[/b] ]"Tom, this is exactly right, if you notice too much fat gain cut back, if you notice you are not growing eat more."

That’s crazy DKM .
You don’t even know how much he is consuming .
If the guy is only consuming a 2000 cals daily and you jack him up to 4000 (20X200=4000) assuming he is 200 lb’s. He can't help but to add fat.
We first need to know his BMR then we can intelligently up his cals to a productive amount gradually .
If a person is consuming only 1800 cals daily and we up it 200 he will defiantly see productive results without a lot of fat gain .
I weight 215 and with your formula 215X20=4300.
I average 2000-2300 cals daily and if I up it an additional 1800-2000 cals I can guarantee anyone would add to much fat at to fast a rate .
I would bloat up like a dead bull .
I will still say…
Determine your BMR and adjust up a few hundred cals until you get to where you want Over a period of months
Instead of upping to a point of over load than having to cut to bring it back down again .
Work upward to you goal.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (Sonny @ Nov. 23 2004,9:41)]

Quote[/b] ]"Tom, this is exactly right, if you notice too much fat gain cut back, if you notice you are not growing eat more."

That’s crazy DKM .

Quote[/b] ]Determine your BMR and adjust up a few hundred cals until you get to where you want Over a period of months
Instead of upping to a point of over load than having to cut to bring it back down again .

It's the same thing you are telling him here, so why am I crazy?
Again you assume then prepose a solution instead of reading then asking a question. I did not say how much more to eat nor am I saying that the 20X BW is the best way to GUESS what it is you need.
All the math in the world is not going to tell you what your BMR actually is, you might get close, but it won't be 100% accurate, there are too many variables. A BMR calculation is a GOOD way to start and I agree to watch your weight and fat % over periods of time and make MINOR adjustments, as you have mentioned, but bottom line is, if you are not growing when applying the HST Principles then you are not eating enough. If you gain substantially too much fat then you are eating too much and either you must cut back on the Kcals ,add more exercise or live with the FAT ACCUMULATION.

 

[BoSox]

Quote[/b] ]Its been proven long ago by the FDA in their RDA as to the amounts need for the body.

this is so you don't have a deficiency; it's not ideal for building muscle. sorry.

Quote[/b] ]Its been proven long ago by the FDA in their RDA as to the amounts need for the body.

heheh...ooooookay big guy, you're the boss.

Quote[/b] ]If you had enough knowledge to realize that all human bodies are equal

right, everyone has the same metabolism and reacts to the same things and thinks the same way. yup.

Quote[/b] ]FACT: Excessive amounts of protein and cause damage to the liver and kidneys.
FACT: There in no significant benefits from using protein supplements
FACT: Nutritionists have long known how much protein that a Bodybuilder should take for maximum growth. (0.8 grams of protein daily for each kilogram of body weight)

not only are those not "facts," they are mostly downright WRONG but alright...

Quote[/b] ]I personal want my body fat to be a little high. I know at what percentage of fat
In which my body is at the moment as to my intake levels are at MY optimum
for growth. I’m sure that you don’t have a clue .

I never said anyone should be a semi-starved bodybuilder. To be perfectly honest, when I saw your picture I thought you were just an out of shape middle aged guy that wanted to get into lifting weights to get back in shape or something and I thought that was great, everyone can benefit from some lifting.

If you are pleased with your results, that's excellent but you really shouldn't use your own body as "proof" of what you're preaching cuz it really doesn't back anything up for you. No offense intended, I'm just being realistic. I'm a basketball player. If someone came up to me, told me I was shooting the wrong way and their shooting form was perfect, but then shot an awkward-looking shot that never went in, I probably wouldn't pay them much attention. Same situation here.

Quote[/b] ]Cutting is a bad way to go as it puts too much stress on the system as a whole.

oh, is that another "fact" Sonny?

Quote[/b] ]I average 2000-2300 cals daily and if I up it an additional 1800-2000 cals I can guarantee anyone would add to much fat at to fast a rate

what are you talking about? No one said he was eating that little. What is going on here?

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] ]FACT: Nutritionists have long known how much protein that a Bodybuilder should take for maximum growth. (0.8 grams of protein daily for each kilogram of body weight)

Macronutrient considerations for the sport of bodybuilding.

Lambert CP, Frank LL, Evans WJ.

Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory, Donald W. Reynolds Center on Aging, Department of Geriatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock, Arkansas 72205, USA. [email protected]

Participants in the sport of bodybuilding are judged by appearance rather than performance. In this respect, increased muscle size and definition are critical elements of success. The purpose of this review is to evaluate the literature and provide recommendations regarding macronutrient intake during both 'off-season' and 'pre-contest' phases. Body builders attempt to increase muscle mass during the off-season (no competitive events), which may be the great majority of the year. During the off-season, it is advantageous for the bodybuilder to be in positive energy balance so that extra energy is available for muscle anabolism. Additionally, during the off-season, adequate protein must be available to provide amino acids for protein synthesis. For 6-12 weeks prior to competition, body builders attempt to retain muscle mass and reduce body fat to very low levels. During the pre-contest phase, the bodybuilder should be in negative energy balance so that body fat can be oxidised. Furthermore, during the pre-contest phase, protein intake must be adequate to maintain muscle mass. There is evidence that a relatively high protein intake (approximately 30% of energy intake) will reduce lean mass loss relative to a lower protein intake (approximately 15% of energy intake) during energy restriction. The higher protein intake will also provide a relatively large thermic effect that may aid in reducing body fat. In both the off-season and pre-contest phases, adequate dietary carbohydrate should be ingested (55-60% of total energy intake) so that training intensity can be maintained. Excess dietary saturated fat can exacerbate coronary artery disease; however, low-fat diets result in a reduction in circulating testosterone. Thus, we suggest dietary fats comprise 15-20% of the body builders' off-season and pre-contest diets.Consumption of protein/amino acids and carbohydrate immediately before and after training sessions may augment protein synthesis, muscle glycogen resynthesis and reduce protein degradation. The optimal rate of carbohydrate ingested immediately after a training session should be 1.2 g/kg/hour at 30-minute intervals for 4 hours and the carbohydrate should be of high glycaemic index. In summary, the composition of diets for body builders should be 55-60% carbohydrate, 25-30% protein and 15-20% of fat, for both the off-season and pre-contest phases. During the off-season the diet should be slightly hyperenergetic (approximately 15% increase in energy intake) and during the pre-contest phase the diet should be hypoenergetic (approximately 15% decrease in energy intake).

 

[Sonny]

Counting Calories Chart .
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/graphics/foodlabelspecial/pg44.pdf
I made those statement Mr. Bosox and for you to dispute it doesn't prove me wrong .
I'm a basketball player. If someone came up to me, told me I was shooting the wrong way and their shooting form was perfect, but then shot an awkward-looking shot that never went in, I probably wouldn't pay them much attention. Same situation here.
You are very naive and narrow minded making that statement .
I could shoot holes in it all day if I had the time .

 

[BoSox]

sonny, are you even reading what people are saying to you?

Once AGAIN, that does not apply to bodybuilders. It applies to average people who don't want a deficiency. Unbelievable...

 

[Sonny]

You’re the one that unbelievable.
An average bodybuilder doing 30 minutes 3 X a week of exercises is in no way Highly Active individual and doesn’t need tons of additional protein or nutrients to add additional growth.
You as a basketball player would need more that the average Bodybuilder who other than his routine has a sedentary lifestyle.
He would need less that a jogger who is running miles, less that the average ditch digger or Heavy Construction worker all else being equal .
All he would need is a modest increase in his daily intake to put on additional size.
And a continual increases as he grows.
Just enough to stay ahead of the current BMR based upon his previous BMR.
(NOTICE I SAID AVERAGE BODYBUILDER)
I’m finished with this thread .

 

[BoSox]

Quote[/b] ]I’m finished with this thread .

I am as well, I'd just like to remind people that the "facts" Sonny has stated in this thread are virtually all not only untrue, but actually directly opposed by scientific fact.

I just don't want anyone confusing things like "all human bodies are equal" with fact.

 

[Lance]

Aside from the quarrel going on, this post is directed towards the original post.

Variety is important ... but i believe keeping things simple makes dieting that much easier. I've thought about doing the meat and potatoes, or meat, fruit, and veggies, etc. Different combinations.

I'd say, go with it for a week. Next week, change things. Maybe pork instead of beef (if you want similar fat content), and fruits or oatmeal or something instead of potatoes. You'd be eating the same thing, 6x per day. But atleast it would change weekly.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

That's actually a pretty good idea, Lance. I can switch the diet, keeping the same macros, bi-weekly or something.