Mike's Log - The Road to Recovery

Good points bro, it may just work well for you. Personally, I've been thriving on 2x/week frequency, and I suspect as I get stronger and more advanced, I may lower the frequency further. It's my opinion that the more advanced the trainee, the less frequency is necessary.

If you want a practical example of programmed routines that resulted in enormous ****ing people, look at the old fashioned american powerlifting routines practiced by people like Doug Young and such back in the day. They weren't running high frequency routines, it was basically programmed splits.

Splits were often something like Monday - Squat Day, Wednesday - Bench Day, Friday - Deadlift Day. Monday, then, would be a programmed cycle for squats (something like an 8-12 week cycle going from 8's to 5's to 3's to 1's or whatever by %'s) and accessory work that was more or less bodybuilding for the legs, Wednesday would basically be a chest/shoulders/triceps type day with the bench programmed the same way, and Friday a "back" and possibly arms day with deadlifts the same. So you get programmed primary lifts hit ~once a week and then a bunch of accessory/volume work thrown on top. Okay, sure they used steroids, but absolutely nothing like the steroid usage of modern day bodybuilders, and these dudes were some of the most jacked people in history. Imo the advantage they had were formalized progressions for the primary lifts, and I am kind of surprised more people haven't tried this as it's not exactly rocket science
 
I actually designed a routine for myself a couple years back pretty much identical to what you just described. I never ran it but have been thinking about doing it lately, kind of funny that you're bringing up the same general idea. I'm probably going to go ahead with it as a way to get back into the three core lifts. I have squat day on Monday, bench Wednesday and deads Friday, along with accessory lifts. What sort of volume would you do with that? I was leaning toward lower reps and higher loads on the core lifts and higher volume with moderate loads for accessories. My original routine was planned for 3x5 on core lifts and 25 total reps for each accessory lift.
 
I actually designed a routine for myself a couple years back pretty much identical to what you just described. I never ran it but have been thinking about doing it lately, kind of funny that you're bringing up the same general idea. I'm probably going to go ahead with it as a way to get back into the three core lifts. I have squat day on Monday, bench Wednesday and deads Friday, along with accessory lifts. What sort of volume would you do with that? I was leaning toward lower reps and higher loads on the core lifts and higher volume with moderate loads for accessories. My original routine was planned for 3x5 on core lifts and 25 total reps for each accessory lift.

Very cool. I am just running a 4 day split since I figured that was slightly more bro-tastic.

There are definitely different ways to play this. One would be to literally look up the linear/western periodization schemes those dudes used for guidance, they are still out there on the interwebs. A while back I came across the "5,5,5+" idea I originally saw proposed by Johnny Pain, basically a variant of the 3 sets of 5, just that the last set winds up a rep out set. At the beginning of cycles (maybe starting in the ~12-10 RM range), the two sets of 5 basically wind up heavy warmup sets, with only one set kind of close to failure. By the end of the cycle, however, you wind up with 3 heavy work sets of 5. Resets, then, are as simple as resetting the loads like ~10-15% or whatever. I liked this concept because resets no longer are psychologically problematic - even with lower loads, you get a chance to set new rep PR's in the lighter range, rather than waiting around weeks/months to hit new PR's. It's a very elegant way of handling things. The only downside to this, obviously, is that if you're training nearer failure, you probably aren't hitting a lift more than once (or at most twice) a week.

That said, there are certainly other ways. %-based lifts and something more akin to those old-fashioned powerlifting routines would work. You could even take a look at Prilepin's table and just come up with your own sets/reps combinations for something like a 6-8 week cycle.

Accessory work I would probably keep in the slightly higher rep territory, though if you planned in competing you could make a case for at least some of that being heavier (e.g. heavy rack or floor presses for bench, stuff like that). You could wing that to a degree (versus programming hard and fast #'s), i.e. keep the reps higher, train a little closer to failure, and just autoregulate the loads, erring on the side of a little too light at the start of a cycle and then bumping things up week to week based on performance/how you're feeling.
 
I actually designed a routine for myself a couple years back pretty much identical to what you just described. I never ran it but have been thinking about doing it lately, kind of funny that you're bringing up the same general idea. I'm probably going to go ahead with it as a way to get back into the three core lifts. I have squat day on Monday, bench Wednesday and deads Friday, along with accessory lifts. What sort of volume would you do with that? I was leaning toward lower reps and higher loads on the core lifts and higher volume with moderate loads for accessories. My original routine was planned for 3x5 on core lifts and 25 total reps for each accessory lift.

If I had the time, I'd go thru your log/s and find every time you've said "I drift from HST and I don't know why" and just email spam you with them :p
 
As a sidenote...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1I5gQCiHnw

This is basically the side-lying transverse abduction (rear delt) exercise I am doing, and it feels marvelous. I am noticeably weaker on my left/screwed up shoulder, too, and feel a profound burn (in a good way) in it. So this will definitely be a keeper.
 
I find this discussion very interesting. I've done 5/3/1 and then the Johnny Pain's Greyskull program in the past. Gave them both a solid 6-12 month run and enjoyed them both. I liked Pain's 5,5,5+ set with sets across. I agree the resets were psychologically easier to handle as one can immediately set rep pr's instead of having to build back up before being able to challenge oneself.


Then I came here looking for the for the magic bullet. What I find though is that firstly, I'm suffering from training A.D.D... But really, these programs are all very similar in foundation. They all use compound movements with progressive loads in the heavy (5,3,singles) range with medium load assistance work. They're mostly focused on strength progression with added hypertrophy as a bonus. They deal with the deload in very similar way.

So as long as you do the heavy compounds, follow some progression in weight, work the assistance lifts and eat properly in between, does it really matter? I know for my self, swapping a lift or even programs every now and then keeps the flame burning.
 
I find this discussion very interesting. I've done 5/3/1 and then the Johnny Pain's Greyskull program in the past. Gave them both a solid 6-12 month run and enjoyed them both. I liked Pain's 5,5,5+ set with sets across. I agree the resets were psychologically easier to handle as one can immediately set rep pr's instead of having to build back up before being able to challenge oneself.


Then I came here looking for the for the magic bullet. What I find though is that firstly, I'm suffering from training A.D.D... But really, these programs are all very similar in foundation. They all use compound movements with progressive loads in the heavy (5,3,singles) range with medium load assistance work. They're mostly focused on strength progression with added hypertrophy as a bonus. They deal with the deload in very similar way.

So as long as you do the heavy compounds, follow some progression in weight, work the assistance lifts and eat properly in between, does it really matter? I know for my self, swapping a lift or even programs every now and then keeps the flame burning.

All else constant, i.e. you're doing enough to drive growth, I doubt it really matters, and it becomes a matter of what you enjoy the most and are most likely to stick with.
 
Lower Body

High Bar Squat (oly shoes, beltless)
Warmup
210 x 5,5,10

Leg Press (continuous tension without lockout)
Warmup
3 plates per side x 10,10,12

Leg Curls
105 x 5,5,12

Hip Abduction
120 x 10,10,15

Calf Raise Stack
215 x 5,5,10

Notes:

Yah, my legs are pretty smoked. I'm able to go bananas on squats if I put my mind towards it, though that set of 10 was pretty much all I had in me. Considering a belt probably adds a good ~15-20 lbs for an equivalent number of reps for me, this places my squat strength in reasonable territory already, which is nice.

The leg presses I didn't do full "raper" style, i.e. I didn't quite pause at the top or bottom, but rather just did "normal" reps without doing the top ~1/4 of the ROM. The result is that I can go a little heavier, but this is still extremely taxing to the legs. I might actually prefer this to the full pauses at the bottom and top.
 
Chest/Triceps

Bench (first reps paused)
Warmup
180 x 5,5,8

Incline Bench
115 x 10,10,15

Cable Pushdowns
60 x 8,8,10

Lying Triceps Extensions
55 x 8,8,9

Side-Lying External Rotations
8 x 8,8,15 per side

Notes:

Solid enough session. Bench is still kind of uncomfortable on my sternum, but nothing too bad. I'll continue playing this by ear. Everything else went well enough. Next week I'm going to change up my triceps exercises, however. I like the lying triceps extensions, but just to make sure nothing weird happens with my shoulder (there is a bit of a stretch on it at the bottom position), I'll probably replace it with skullcrushers to the bar right behind my head on the bench, which is a similar but reduced ROM movement. Then I'll probably do the pushdowns for a bit higher reps (a couple sets of 12+), since heavy cable pushdowns feel awkward anyways.

PUMPS.
 
Back/Biceps

Hook Grip Deadlifts (oly shoes, no belt)
Warmup
275 x 5,8

Cable Rows
140 x 5,5,12

Pulldowns
115 x 10,10,15

Standing Barbell Curls
65 x 8,8,12

Machine Preacher Curls
50 x 12,20

Notes:

Holy pumps. Pumps everywhere.

I decided to stick two work sets of deadlifts once a week since that has been working well to date. I had considered using the 5,5,5+ format for it, too, but I figured 5,5+ is probably plenty, as deadlifts, by their nature, are kind of an overload type movement. With straps I was probably good for at least another couple of reps, as my grip is what was giving out at the end, but I'll stick with the hook. I have to admit, I kind of like the hardcore-ness of lifting without a belt, too.
 
I hope you stick with this format for a couple of months. I am curious to see how it works. It's always a trade off between volume and frequency. HST being a low volume/ high frequency approach, and the "classic" bodybuilding split like you are doing being the hugely popular high volume/ low frequency approach. Personally, I never had good results with low frequency, but then again, I was never very advanced either.
I can see how high frequency HST type of program is superior for beginners and intermediates, but I have a hunch that the higher volume bodybuilding splits may be superior for advanced trainees, given the enormous anecdotal evidence of huge bodybuilders that have succeeded doing it that way. ( and I don't think it's just drugs either, even naturals have succeeded in bodybuilding doing the classic Bro splits.)

It certainly seems you are enjoying this approach so far. Which is arguable one of the most critical aspects of any program in the long term.
 
I hope you stick with this format for a couple of months. I am curious to see how it works. It's always a trade off between volume and frequency. HST being a low volume/ high frequency approach, and the "classic" bodybuilding split like you are doing being the hugely popular high volume/ low frequency approach. Personally, I never had good results with low frequency, but then again, I was never very advanced either.
I can see how high frequency HST type of program is superior for beginners and intermediates, but I have a hunch that the higher volume bodybuilding splits may be superior for advanced trainees, given the enormous anecdotal evidence of huge bodybuilders that have succeeded doing it that way. ( and I don't think it's just drugs either, even naturals have succeeded in bodybuilding doing the classic Bro splits.)

It certainly seems you are enjoying this approach so far. Which is arguable one of the most critical aspects of any program in the long term.

Yep, I'll give this a good run for at least a couple/few months, longer if it works well. I have to admit, I do enjoy it.

As I think I said, I agree that higher frequency for beginners/intermediates is probably the way to go. It's a dose/response thing. When you don't need a particularly big dose to drive gains (i.e. are very far from your genetic threshold), it's easy to see how a smaller stimulus more often will definitely win. The problem is probably more a long-term thing, i.e. once you start creeping into the neighborhood of your genetic ceiling, there is a certain logic to needing a comparatively large dose of stimulus to drive hypertrophy. As per the logic earlier, a large dose followed by a mini-SD every time you "hit" a body part would seem to be a model that should work well. Brian's model of higher frequency punctuated by SD might work even better, I just think there's a larger margin of error to accidentally getting the dose wrong, in which case, as I said, you wind up "not quite growing really often," which will actually lose out to "definitely growing but less often."

One thing both standard bodybuilding and DC training have in common is that they induce a very large local fatigue effect. I.e. after doing a bunch of volume, or some rest/pause stuff, it takes a while for the muscles you just hit to recover enough to repeat the performance. To be honest, I could easily repeat the performance of a lot of higher frequency (even HST type training) probably like an hour later if I had to. That lasting, local fatigue effect might add up to something imo, perhaps it's helping drive the satellite cell stuff that ultimately regulates the donation of nuclei to muscle fibers, which is really what puts the cap on how big any given muscle is capable of growing. Perhaps it's doing so from the "metabolic stress" side of the equation, which is often lacking in more frequent training (by necessity).
 
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Shoulders/Upper Back - Week 2

Chins
Warmup
Me + 80 x 5,5,7

Seated Barbell Press
Warmup
100 x 5,5,11

Inverted Rows
Me + 2.5 x 10,10,12

45 Degree Lateral Raises
10 x 10,10,15 per side

Side-Lying Rear Delt Raise
8 x 10,10,11.5 per side

Notes:

I felt pretty good going into this session. I have to admit, having a week off between "parts" is kind of nice/rejuvenating. I managed to match reps in the two primary lifts while bumping both up +5 lbs from last week.
 
Lower Body - Week 2

High Bar Squat (oly shoes, beltless)
Warmup
215 x 5,5,9 (or 10, I lost count a few reps in)

Leg Press (continuous tension, no lockouts)
Warmup
3 plates + 5 lbs per side x 10,10,15

Hip Abduction Machine
125 x 10,10,15

Calf Raise Stack
195 x 8,8,15

Notes:

Very tiring session, particularly the squats. I experimented with my form a little to get slightly back into my hips. My cues are now basically "chest up" and "sit between my heels." As if there's a box centered between my heels, and I'm just sitting down on it. This seems to work pretty well, felt it a little more in my posterior chain.

Leg presses were markedly easier this week, so that's a plus. I'm going to move leg curls to my "back" day for a little extra hamstring work. Leg days are a little tiring as it is, and I figure some extra leg curls can make up for the comparatively less volume I have for work sets in deadlifts (which is really the only tiring exercise I actually do that day).

Still enjoying my pumps, bros.
 
Chest/Biceps - Week 2

Bench (first reps paused)
Warmup
185 x 5,5,~8 (last rep almost failed)

Incline Bench
120 x 10,10,13

EZ Bar Curls
75 x 8,8,14

Seated DB Curls
25s (50) x 12,15

Side-Lying External Rotations
10 x 8,8,10 per side

Notes:

Solid enough session. I nearly failed my 8th rep with 185 in the bench, I did some butt wiggling and managed to kind of rack/lock it out simultaneously. Oops.

I definitely prefer pairing chest with biceps, as I had way more strength in curls without doing a bunch of back work beforehand. Tomorrow, then, will be back and triceps.
 
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Working things as you are seems like a good way to get more of a summation effect for your arms than would otherwise be the case with a regular back/bis, chest/tris split. 5 sets for bis shouldn't interfere with your back session either, even if it's ~24 hours later.

It'll be interesting to see if that's what you experience from splitting things up this way.
 
Back/Triceps - Week 2

Hook Grip Deadlifts (oly shoes, beltless)
Warmup
285 x 5,8

Cable Rows
147.5 x 5,5,11

Lying Triceps Extensions to Bench (bar touches bench behind my head)
Warmup
65 x 8 (probably a little too heavy to start)
55 x 8,15

Pulldowns (underhand grip)
120 x 10,10,15

Triceps Cable Pushdowns
50 x 12,15

Leg Curls (at home)
85 x 11

Notes:

Another solid session. I matched reps in deadlifts this week despite bumping the weight up ten pounds. I actually forgot to do the leg curls at the gym, so did them at my home station (completely different weight, but about the right number of reps).

Two weeks of bro training complete. So far, so good. I like being able to hit something hard, giving it a week to rest, and then seeing a performance increase the following week. Good old-fashioned supercompensation, I suppose.
 
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Shoulders/Upper Back - Week 3

Chins
Warmup
Me + 85 x 5,5,7

Seated Barbell Press
Warmup
105 x 5,5,10

Inverted Rows
Me + 5 x 10,10,12

45 Degree Lateral Raises
11 x 10,10,12 per side

Side-Lying Rear Delt Raises
8 x 10,10,13 per side

Notes:

I experimented with foam rolling my lats beforehand. Wow, they are very tight, and this seemed to free up some ROM on my left side. I also tried doing a banded distraction flexion stretch somewhere in the middle, but this was less of a good idea. I am thinking stretching certain restricted ROM's is probably a good idea, but doing it before/during workouts seems to cause me to notice irritation in the joint more. So, stretching after, foam rolling before.

Chins are doing pretty well, so far I've added 10 lbs and not lost any reps (from +75 for 5,5,7 to +85 for 5,5,7). Everything else is also trending upwards, so far so good.
 
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Lower Body - Week 3

High Bar Squat (oly shoes, beltless)
Warmup
217.5 x 5,5,8

Leg Press (no lockouts)
Warmup
3 plates + 10 lbs per side x 10,10,15

Hip Abduction Machine
130 x 10,10,14

Calf Raises
202.5 x 8,8,12

Notes:

Man, squats are getting pretty hard, it was definitely wise to only bump things up 2.5 lbs. I think I was tired in general today, but performance across the board was still pretty solid.
 
Chest/Biceps - Week 3

Barbell Bench (first reps paused)
Warmup
190 x 5,5,6

Incline Bench
125 x 10,10,13

EZ Bar Curls
80 x 8,8,12

Seated DB Curls
27.5s (55) x 12,15

Poliquin External Rotations
10 x 8,8,12 per side

Notes:

Decent enough, I suppose. I probably could have managed 7 reps in the bench but didn't risk it. I will probably increment ~2.5 lbs per week from here on out.

Still kind of weird to me how ****ed up my barbell bench is. That said, it's definitely improving over time, so I just need to be patient.
 
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