My Big, Stinky Log

_tim

_tim

Well-Known Member
OK. This is something I've been thinking about quite a bit, taking in bits and pieces from the likes of Gator, Colby, Liege, Icars, Sniggel, FearFactory, Lol, Fausto, Quad and of course Sci.

I'm thinking of trying out a Macrocycle that will be composed of three Mesocycles:

1 8-9 week HST mesocycle - goal: growth, strength;
1 8-9 week SST mesocycle - goal: strength;
1 8-9 week Olympic mesocycle - goal: power, strength

All three will carry some basics of the HST methodology with them - a progressive load being the one main shared idea between each mesocycle.

The reason for this whole macrocycle thought is one of honest experimentation. I've just finished my first HST cycle with tremendous results. I'm putting the finishing touches on what will be a HST/SST hybrid, overweighted toward the SST side with a 5x5-type foundation for the SST component, to start on Monday 8/6. I've never done Olympic lifting, and want to. I think it may well be a nice change-up to try and see what happens - I believe it could very positively influence other non-Olympic lifts.

I may well be over complicating this. If so - I guess I'll just say that it's my way of seeing just how far I can go, and with what results. I'd be able to do 2 macrocycles per year, assuming that I keep the mesocycles down to 8 weeks a piece - and that would happen if I get my maxes correct, and keep my SD down to a single week or less.

So - this is my new log, guys. I'll post my SST-like workout as soon as I really feel that it's done, probably in the next couple days. I'm insanely torn at this point between doing full body workouts MWF, or doing a 5-day split some way or other, given my prior SST experience. This, I'll very honestly admit, I'm making much harder than it needs to be.

In the meantime, let me know what you think about something like this. It ain't so much a "Simplify and Win" idea on the surface, but trust me, each mesocycle will very firmly keep things simple in their own way.
 
Great idea Tim. I like. I think I would allow a good 10 day SD between macrocycles.

The Oly lifts require a much higher skill level than the other lifts you will be doing so you might want to try doing a few specific lifts the whole cycle but with only light loads, just as a bit of practice (say, at the beginning of your workout as a warm-up). That way, when you arrive at the Oly mesocycle you will be familiar enough with a few lifts to be able to push the loads up.

All the best.
 
i cant say much about the olympic lifts as ive never done them but the way you have put the mesocycles together tayloring them individually to suit strength,growth or both is impressive.
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you know what you ned to do....
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<div>
(Lol @ Jul. 31 2007,17:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The Oly lifts require a much higher skill level than the other lifts you will be doing so you might want to try doing a few specific lifts the whole cycle but with only light loads, just as a bit of practice (say, at the beginning of your workout as a warm-up). That way, when you arrive at the Oly mesocycle you will be familiar enough with a few lifts to be able to push the loads up.</div>
Lol - are there any particular lifts that you'd suggest that I start working on?  I like the idea of using the lifts with light weights to learn form before beginning the Olympic mesocycle.

Icars - Thanks so much for the feedback!

I have to admit that I'm excited about this, and really think I'll see some different results than I have in the past.  If nothing else, I'll have a very different experience in the gym!

Now if I could just settle on my SST routine, I'll be set.
 
Great to see someone else taking an interest in doing the olympic lifts Tim, you'll be glad you did. If you don't have a coach or someone who knows the lifts to help you, I would suggest starting with cleans, they're less technical than a snatch. Learn the full lift first, then when your form is down you can do power cleans.

I would also suggest working from the hang position, the start of the second pull, just above the knee. Clean pulls will also help with form and should be the first lift you work on, it's essentially the first part of the second pull.
 
I am no authority on Oly lifts; Liege is our resident Oly lifter so listen to his advice.

I started with cleans. One thing I found though was that I didn't really get in the groove and understand the importance of timing the stages of the lift just right until I started pushing the loads up. However, it is still possible to get the technique right with say just 40kg (use full size 10kg bumper plates if possible).

I had a go at the snatch too after watching a pile of Youtube vids and reading some instructional guides.

Liege can advise you on all the assistance exercises.

I think by keeping the loads light and using the oly lifts for warmup work you will do your wrists a favour. They will have time to toughen up a bit. Mine took a hammering when I first started cleans. When I get back to them next cycle I will take it a bit more gradually.

Oh, and the other thing to start doing for your cleans is using the hook grip. It feels horrible to begin with but becomes essential when the loads get heavier. You just have to get used to it so another good reason to practice when the loads are light.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">taking in bits and pieces from the likes of Gator, Colby, Liege, Icars, Sniggel, FearFactory, Lol, Fausto, Quad and of course Sci.</div>

Who haven't you taken ideas from? I'm just glad to see my name there!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I may well be over complicating this. If so - I guess I'll just say that it's my way of seeing just how far I can go, and with what results.</div>

There is nothing wrong with experimentation, but 24-27 weeks w/o a break can be quite daring. Maybe follow LOL's advice and split it up into three separate routines with SD's in between each.

A couple questions...
1) What do your mesocycles look like as far as frequency, progression, and rep ranges?
2) Are you also doing 5x5 during your HST dominated mesocycle?
 
<div>
(liegelord @ Aug. 01 2007,01:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Great to see someone else taking an interest in doing the olympic lifts Tim, you'll be glad you did. If you don't have a coach or someone who knows the lifts to help you, I would suggest starting with cleans, they're less technical than a snatch. Learn the full lift first, then when your form is down you can do power cleans.

I would also suggest working from the hang position, the start of the second pull, just above the knee. Clean pulls will also help with form and should be the first lift you work on, it's essentially the first part of the second pull.</div>
Thanks so much for the advice, Liege! I'll definitely start with cleans. I'll start looking at the form tonight. I've been reading your log since I joined, and I must say that between you and Lol, you guys have really sparked an interest in Olympic lifting. I'm hoping that between now and the end of my SST mesocycle, I'll be able to gain familiarity with all the lifts I'll be using for the Olympic mesocycle.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
I started with cleans. One thing I found though was that I didn't really get in the groove and understand the importance of timing the stages of the lift just right until I started pushing the loads up. However, it is still possible to get the technique right with say just 40kg (use full size 10kg bumper plates if possible).

I had a go at the snatch too after watching a pile of Youtube vids and reading some instructional guides.

I think by keeping the loads light and using the oly lifts for warmup work you will do your wrists a favour. They will have time to toughen up a bit. Mine took a hammering when I first started cleans. When I get back to them next cycle I will take it a bit more gradually.

Oh, and the other thing to start doing for your cleans is using the hook grip. It feels horrible to begin with but becomes essential when the loads get heavier. You just have to get used to it so another good reason to practice when the loads are light.
</div>
Thanks Lol!!!!!! Great advice!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
This will be interesting to follow, good luck!
</div>
Thanks Sniggel! I hope it works!
 
<div>
(colby2152 @ Aug. 01 2007,08:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Who haven't you taken ideas from? I'm just glad to see my name there!
smile.gif


There is nothing wrong with experimentation, but 24-27 weeks w/o a break can be quite daring. Maybe follow LOL's advice and split it up into three separate routines with SD's in between each.

A couple questions...
1) What do your mesocycles look like as far as frequency, progression, and rep ranges?
2) Are you also doing 5x5 during your HST dominated mesocycle?</div>
The folks I mentioned have very impactful approaches to this obsession - so honestly, there were more to mention but it started getting kinda obnoxious.

I may have said things wrong - I'm definitely going to SD between each mesocycle for about 7 days - then, per Lol's advice, I'll take 10 days off between macrocycles.

To your questions:

1. Frequency-wise, probably MWF, but I'm strongly considering a 5 day split for my SST portion - that has worked in the past. Progression is central to the whole mess - progressive loads will be employed in each mesocycle. Rep ranges:

HST - 10's - 5's - 3's
SST - 10's - 5's
Oly - 15's - 10's - 5's - (maybe) 3's

2. No, I don't think I'll do 5x5 for the HST piece. At most, I'd do 5x4, employing your notion of variable volume if 4 sets doesn't cut it. This differs from the SST portion in that I'm going to stay strict to 5 sets volume-wise when in the 5's, but will employ variable volume during the 10's (during the SST piece) to maximize lactic acid release.
 
I'm actually treating the cycle I just completed as the HST mesocycle. So, that 1st mesocycle is complete. I'm currently in SD awaiting the start of my SST mesocycle, to begin on Monday. I started thinking about this macrocycle idea mid-way through my last cycle, and it was only after I got away from the gym that I could settle it all in my head in a way that it made sense.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm currently in SD awaiting the start of my SST mesocycle, to begin on Monday. </div>

Oh okay, now I am with you. You want to change things up while over a long period of time continuing progress on strength, power, and growth. O&amp;G used to (or should I say still does) alternate 5x5 routines in with every 2 HST cycles.
 
O&amp;G is a stud.

Yeah - I just think that this setup will give me enough variation to keep my interest, and if I focus each mesocycle correctly, the end result could be pretty interesting. I'm especially excited to see how the Olympic mesocycle affects my HST mesocycle.

I have to get through SST first - which in and of itself will be crazy fun.
 
I am really looking forward to seeing your layout on the SST mesocycle. Coming up with a battleplan is key to successful lifting, IMHO. I'm starting to get more obsessed with my strength than I should, because hypertrophy is still my number one goal. I know you gotta be looking forward to getting back in the gym now, I know I couldn't stay out my entire SD
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. How'd that deep tissue go for you, or is that later this week?
 
I had to cancel the deep tissue. Man, I was MAD. It'll happen next week - but that sorta blows the whole &quot;massage during SD&quot; thing. Oh well.

I cannot wait to get going on this Gator. I'm gonna go back on Friday to try and set up some new numbers for my 10's.

I think I may have made my final SST changes... I'll post 'em soon.
 
SST

OK. Follow me on this, 'cause it's gonna potentially be confusing. I'm going to do a M-TU-TH-F split, working each muscle group both through focused ISO work and through compounds, all spread through the 4 workouts. I've labeled these workouts A-D, (EDIT!) and they will flow sequentially through each week.

This mesocycle will consist of both 10's and 5's in terms of the rep ranges. (EDIT!) I'm going to start at 90% of my RM's for the 10's, and 80% for the 5's given the type of workout this is, and for the 10's, I'll push to 110% of my 10RM. For the 5's, I'm targeting 115% of my 5RM.

EVERY workout will begin with an Olympic exercise used as a warm-up, likely 2-3 sets of 10 using light-moderate weights. This is to learn the lifts and get things going.

Specifically for the 10's, I'm going to set a volume target of 40 reps per exercise. I want to absolutely obliterate each muscle group a couple times each workout. This volume is variable; if 4 sets of 10 fail to make me cry, I'll add sets until I do. This is JUST for the 10's.

For the 5's, I'm going to do a strict 5x5 routine. If I have the loads correctly set, 5 sets will do the trick.

For my notation below, any exercises grouped in braces will be alternated from week to week.

The actual workouts will look like this:

A - Back, Tricep

Pendlay Rows
{Chins,Pullups}
{CNGP,WNGP} (close and wide neutral grip pulls)
Barbell French Press
Close Grip Bench - Smith

B - Deltoids, Abs

(EDIT!)
Military Press
Dumbell Laterals Front
Dumbell Laterals Side
Shrugs
Roman Chair Superset

C - Legs, Abs
(EDIT!)
{ATG Squats,Conventional Deads}
{Standing Calf,Seated Calf}
(EDIT!)
Leg Curl
Single-Leg Extensions
Roman Chair Superset

D - Chest, Bicep

(EDIT!)
Flat Bench (Barbell)
Incline Dumbell Press
Decline Dumbell Press
{Hammer Strength Curl,Barbell Curl}
Seated Incline Curl

Abs are going to work a bit different than the rest of the lot, with a volume target of only 2 sets. The Roman Chair Superset will include heavier Roman Chair situps between 5 and 8 reps, and then two other ab-specific, non-oblique-related exercises. For example, the sets would look something like this:

1. 8 roman chair situps, 12 leg raises
2. 8 roman chair situps, 40+ SLOW ab machine crunches

So - that's it. If you guys see any obvious flaws, PLEASE let me know. I think there's enough rest time in there for recovery time, and I think I'm going to hit everything hard enough to grow strength levels nicely. This is very different from my original plan design, which would have been full body 3x per week. I think I need the change I made, and with the way I spread out the ISO-compound dichotomy, most muscle groups will get a good slaying a couple times per week.

(EDIT!)
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I'm gonna forego the edit feature for this post, though it is pertinent to the program.

As you can see I made a few changes after thinking more about my whole macrocycle idea. I decided to drop the weight a bit and do ATG Squats as opposed to vanilla squats, for the very simple reason that after looking at the Olympic lifts on exrx.net, it seems that my hip flexors will need to be in top shape to maintain lower body form.

Secondly, I switched out Rev. Pec Deck in favor of the military press (seated). The former hits the medial and anterior delts pretty well, but militaries hit all three parts of the deltoid just in different ways; dependent on what part of the lift is in question, a different part of the deltoid does the work. The medial delts act as stabilizers through most of the lift, and the anterior and posterior delts share the load (posterior first, anterior second).

Thirdly, I added the basic barbell bench press to the chest routine. I hate bench. Time to change that. I hate militaries too, for that matter - all the more reason to do them.

That's it for now. Monday the fun begins.
 
I found a couple example routines on BB.com. I don't mean to be naive - is there actually a standard 5x5 routine? I just thought it was a rep/set setup.
 
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