Next Cycle
- Thread starter Fausto
- Start date
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Not an expert, but I will say this. I think this routine will give you your best gains yet.
I personally think you will respond better to just the 3 day a week workout instead of more frequency. I know this goes against our thinking a little bit, and dont get me wrong I think increased frequency is great, but in my opinion 4 days a week is the max a natural trainee can train and make great gains.
So that being said your routine based on 3 days a week looks damn solid.
I will tell you what I do like is the 3 sets for 10's and the 6 sets for 5 reps. I cant wait to see how you respond to the 6 sets...I think the increase volume will prob due the trick and make you blow up !!!
Once again everything looks good, I like this set up the best of all your Faustonians !
I personally think you will respond better to just the 3 day a week workout instead of more frequency. I know this goes against our thinking a little bit, and dont get me wrong I think increased frequency is great, but in my opinion 4 days a week is the max a natural trainee can train and make great gains.
So that being said your routine based on 3 days a week looks damn solid.
I will tell you what I do like is the 3 sets for 10's and the 6 sets for 5 reps. I cant wait to see how you respond to the 6 sets...I think the increase volume will prob due the trick and make you blow up !!!
Once again everything looks good, I like this set up the best of all your Faustonians !
i wont to say thjat im an expert, but you can use something like the "cluster hst" variation if you like.
stick with the following exercises:
Squat
Deadlift
Dips (good for chest and shoulders, trizeps)
chinups (grip the bar from below and tight)
the higher the load gets the lower your clusters will get.
before your sd you can estimate your 5rm or your 1rm for every exercise. i would stick with the 5rm maxes, because the 1rm would be too heavy in your first "cluster hst"
start with 60% from your rm weights (depending on how long your sd was).
training is 3-6 times per week, better are 4-6 times per week.
[when you make a 2day split programm like the following:
A-->squat/dip/chinup
B-->Deadlift/benchpress/military Press
so you should stick with 6 times per week, so you train A 3times and B 3times]
your complete cycle should take 6weeks, go fast at the beginning to 80 percent of your rm weight, that it dont becomes too light ! stick with higher increments and so when you make this you only can add more load for example 2 times every week, depending on how often you are training.
-do 30-40 reps per exercise (maybe 50)
-you can make loaded stretching and strip sets
understand it
its a little bit complicated, maybe a example:
why only 4 exercises?
because when you are at the end of your cycle and you must make 40 reps with your 5rm weight (or maybe your 1rm weight!!) that takes very long. so you are clustering to your 40 reps like this: 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/2/2/2/2 (and thats with your 5rm weight !!! think about it ! so maybe your clusters will get not so high, maybe they will be only 2 and 1 rep clusters !!)
You can make the whole cycle the same rep schema like from week 1 to week 6 make every day 40 reps. or you can begin in week 1 with maybe 25 reps and end in week 6 with 40 reps !
its your decision, and i hope that you have fully understanded the thing i have explained, give me feedback , this programm is very popular here and many people swear that it works fantastic !
i will be satisfied when you are going to test this and give your feedback, im SURE it will work for you !!!
good luck with your cycle !
stick with the following exercises:
Squat
Deadlift
Dips (good for chest and shoulders, trizeps)
chinups (grip the bar from below and tight)
the higher the load gets the lower your clusters will get.
before your sd you can estimate your 5rm or your 1rm for every exercise. i would stick with the 5rm maxes, because the 1rm would be too heavy in your first "cluster hst"
start with 60% from your rm weights (depending on how long your sd was).
training is 3-6 times per week, better are 4-6 times per week.
[when you make a 2day split programm like the following:
A-->squat/dip/chinup
B-->Deadlift/benchpress/military Press
so you should stick with 6 times per week, so you train A 3times and B 3times]
your complete cycle should take 6weeks, go fast at the beginning to 80 percent of your rm weight, that it dont becomes too light ! stick with higher increments and so when you make this you only can add more load for example 2 times every week, depending on how often you are training.
-do 30-40 reps per exercise (maybe 50)
-you can make loaded stretching and strip sets
understand it
its a little bit complicated, maybe a example:
why only 4 exercises?
because when you are at the end of your cycle and you must make 40 reps with your 5rm weight (or maybe your 1rm weight!!) that takes very long. so you are clustering to your 40 reps like this: 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/2/2/2/2 (and thats with your 5rm weight !!! think about it ! so maybe your clusters will get not so high, maybe they will be only 2 and 1 rep clusters !!)
You can make the whole cycle the same rep schema like from week 1 to week 6 make every day 40 reps. or you can begin in week 1 with maybe 25 reps and end in week 6 with 40 reps !
its your decision, and i hope that you have fully understanded the thing i have explained, give me feedback , this programm is very popular here and many people swear that it works fantastic !
i will be satisfied when you are going to test this and give your feedback, im SURE it will work for you !!!
good luck with your cycle !
ah before you ask, it is irrelevant how you reach your (in my example 40 reps) volumen. at the beginning your clusters will be big and look like
10/10/10/10 reps
and at the end it will look like described above.
only thing is to follow the hst principles and dont go to failure.
and by the way, i wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">training is 3-6 times per week, better are 4-6 times per week.</div>
look at what joe said, thats my opinion too! so 4 times would be great. maybe 5 ?!?!?
10/10/10/10 reps
and at the end it will look like described above.
only thing is to follow the hst principles and dont go to failure.
and by the way, i wrote:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">training is 3-6 times per week, better are 4-6 times per week.</div>
look at what joe said, thats my opinion too! so 4 times would be great. maybe 5 ?!?!?
Fausto, I ain't no expert, but I would do dips instead of bench. Maybe you are doing incline? in which case I understand why no dips. However, I would still alternate dips and incline bench. I'd do the same for bent over rows and chins.
If you can do 6 sets of 5RMs for deads and squats in the same session you are one cool dude!
I reckon that you will have to cluster as choco says. Post-5s look set to be a whole lot of fun too.
I might try the Big Five next cycle. I am doing just seven exercises this cycle. Enjoying it more already. I think I will always add in some kind of calf raises though as I really want to add some size there.
If you can do 6 sets of 5RMs for deads and squats in the same session you are one cool dude!
I might try the Big Five next cycle. I am doing just seven exercises this cycle. Enjoying it more already. I think I will always add in some kind of calf raises though as I really want to add some size there.
Tom Treutlein
New Member
No reason for deads and squats 3x a week either. One will bring up the other, to some degree.
Dips + incline bench for me - I'm getting rid of flat bench. It just doesn't feel comfortable. I can do it without pain, but it always feels awkward for me.
Chinups are great, but you need something else for the back. I'd use rows.
Dips and incline probably negate the need for OHP. I try to look for a counter movement to find balance in a routine.
Ideally, I'd like something like:
Squat <> Deadlift/RDL
Bench <> OHP
Row <> Chinup
Of course, that's if bench worked the chest. Some people have problems getting a developed chest from flat benching. However, provided you could do the above exercises, I think they cover the whole body perfectly, wouldn't you guys say?
'course, you've got to worry about A) calves, B) upper chest development [varies, some may be fine with bench + OHP]
Outside of that though, I think the above six exercises target the entire body wonderfully.
Dips + incline bench for me - I'm getting rid of flat bench. It just doesn't feel comfortable. I can do it without pain, but it always feels awkward for me.
Chinups are great, but you need something else for the back. I'd use rows.
Dips and incline probably negate the need for OHP. I try to look for a counter movement to find balance in a routine.
Ideally, I'd like something like:
Squat <> Deadlift/RDL
Bench <> OHP
Row <> Chinup
Of course, that's if bench worked the chest. Some people have problems getting a developed chest from flat benching. However, provided you could do the above exercises, I think they cover the whole body perfectly, wouldn't you guys say?
'course, you've got to worry about A) calves, B) upper chest development [varies, some may be fine with bench + OHP]
Outside of that though, I think the above six exercises target the entire body wonderfully.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Deads and squats same day? I don't think I am that cool, my back has told me before that it cannot be done</div>
hey then do the 2 day split routine i have mentioned ! and stick with 40 reps from beginning to the end. i swear your progress would be nice
hey then do the 2 day split routine i have mentioned ! and stick with 40 reps from beginning to the end. i swear your progress would be nice
ChrisHouston
New Member
<div>
(Fausto @ Jun. 05 2006,15:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I am intending to use a very simple workout with only the big five: Squat, Deadlift, Bench, Chin ups, Military Press
And the following volume:
15's - 2 sets
10's - 3 sets
5's 6 sets
What is the opinion of the other experts?</div>
I had exactly the same idea for my next cycle. The 5x6 sounds a bit daunting - I reckon I could always drop it down to 5x5 on the second week, and 5x4 after that for negs.
You could treat Squats/deadlifts as one exercise, and do three sets of one and three of the other.
Experts? Jirre, Fausto, ek't gedink jy's die expert.
Chris.
(Fausto @ Jun. 05 2006,15:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I am intending to use a very simple workout with only the big five: Squat, Deadlift, Bench, Chin ups, Military Press
And the following volume:
15's - 2 sets
10's - 3 sets
5's 6 sets
What is the opinion of the other experts?</div>
I had exactly the same idea for my next cycle. The 5x6 sounds a bit daunting - I reckon I could always drop it down to 5x5 on the second week, and 5x4 after that for negs.
You could treat Squats/deadlifts as one exercise, and do three sets of one and three of the other.
Experts? Jirre, Fausto, ek't gedink jy's die expert.
Chris.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Someone just brought up a good point.
About the shoulders get hit indirectly by all the pressing movements.
Would any of you guys recommend not doing overhead press b/c of this?
About the shoulders get hit indirectly by all the pressing movements.
Would any of you guys recommend not doing overhead press b/c of this?
Tom Treutlein
New Member
<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 05 2006,16:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Someone just brought up a good point.
About the shoulders get hit indirectly by all the pressing movements.
Would any of you guys recommend not doing overhead press b/c of this?</div>
It depends on how many pressing movements you're doing, and how you're splitting them up, if at all.
HST - if you're doing flat bench coupled with OHP, no problem. Dip and incline? OHP can be ignored for that cycle. Not gonna kill you.
Something like 5x5, where you have Monday/Friday and Wednesday with different sets of exercises? Well, you already know how that's layed out.
(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 05 2006,16:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Someone just brought up a good point.
About the shoulders get hit indirectly by all the pressing movements.
Would any of you guys recommend not doing overhead press b/c of this?</div>
It depends on how many pressing movements you're doing, and how you're splitting them up, if at all.
HST - if you're doing flat bench coupled with OHP, no problem. Dip and incline? OHP can be ignored for that cycle. Not gonna kill you.
Something like 5x5, where you have Monday/Friday and Wednesday with different sets of exercises? Well, you already know how that's layed out.
<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 05 2006,21:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Someone just brought up a good point.
About the shoulders get hit indirectly by all the pressing movements.
Would any of you guys recommend not doing overhead press b/c of this?</div>
No, because the overhead press is a great compound that involves anterior and medial delts, tris, traps and upper pecs.
It seems that these days most folks are much weaker in the overhead press than they should be compared with, say, flat bench. In the early days of lifting a lot of guys could lift as much in a shoulder press as they could in a bench press (but mainly because bench wasn't that popular). I have a vid of Paul Anderson pressing 369lbs and making it look really easy.
Also, the press lends itself nicely to negs as you can do a push press to get the weight up and then lower under control.
For me, it is a really natural movement and gives me no shoulder pain unlike bench press or shoulder presses in a Smith machine.
(Joe.Muscle @ Jun. 05 2006,21:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Someone just brought up a good point.
About the shoulders get hit indirectly by all the pressing movements.
Would any of you guys recommend not doing overhead press b/c of this?</div>
No, because the overhead press is a great compound that involves anterior and medial delts, tris, traps and upper pecs.
It seems that these days most folks are much weaker in the overhead press than they should be compared with, say, flat bench. In the early days of lifting a lot of guys could lift as much in a shoulder press as they could in a bench press (but mainly because bench wasn't that popular). I have a vid of Paul Anderson pressing 369lbs and making it look really easy.
Also, the press lends itself nicely to negs as you can do a push press to get the weight up and then lower under control.
For me, it is a really natural movement and gives me no shoulder pain unlike bench press or shoulder presses in a Smith machine.
Tom Treutlein
New Member
You know, if bench fucks with the shoulders so much, why is it still such a prided movement in MMA (Rooney advocates it), football and other professional sports, and the popular 5x5 routines? I mean, it has been problematic for so long...why do people still bother? I know it doesn't hurt everyone, but it seems to be more trouble than it's worth, especially when dips and inclines work just as well, or better.
Plus, if you want to argue about specificity, incline has much more carryover to a punch then the flat bench.
Plus, if you want to argue about specificity, incline has much more carryover to a punch then the flat bench.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Tom I dont think bench is neccisarily evil...but it can be tough on the shoulders.
Mostly b/c everyone over works bench...I know i did when I first start working out.
Nobody misses a chest day.
Therefor I think if you bench 150 pounds you should be able to row 150 pounds...if people were to keep everything balanced along with proper rotator cuff work (which I dont do) shoulders would be more healthy....just my opinion.
Then again only injury I have ever suffered from working out was Torn bicep....how did I do it....???...You guessed it benching press my one rep max.....drunk!
So i was an idiot!
Mostly b/c everyone over works bench...I know i did when I first start working out.
Nobody misses a chest day.
Therefor I think if you bench 150 pounds you should be able to row 150 pounds...if people were to keep everything balanced along with proper rotator cuff work (which I dont do) shoulders would be more healthy....just my opinion.
Then again only injury I have ever suffered from working out was Torn bicep....how did I do it....???...You guessed it benching press my one rep max.....drunk!
So i was an idiot!
Fausto,
It always seems that I am right behind you. I can tell I am an official cut when my energy/strength is a bit down. The calf raise machine is weird at the gym I am going to this summer, so I axed my routine down to this:
Deadlifts (Smith)
Squats (Smith)
CG Dips
WG Lat Pulldowns
CG Lat Pulldowns
Military Press (DB)
Pulley Crunches
Bench Press
I am also going to try 2x15, 3x10, 6x5 setup with the sets. When it gets to the 5's though, I will treat the Dips and Bench Press as one "exercise" so that I do 3 sets each.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Therefor I think if you bench 150 pounds you should be able to row 150 pounds...if people were to keep everything balanced along with proper rotator cuff work (which I dont do) shoulders would be more healthy....just my opinion.</div>
Rows and Bench are pretty much the same for me actually.
It always seems that I am right behind you. I can tell I am an official cut when my energy/strength is a bit down. The calf raise machine is weird at the gym I am going to this summer, so I axed my routine down to this:
Deadlifts (Smith)
Squats (Smith)
CG Dips
WG Lat Pulldowns
CG Lat Pulldowns
Military Press (DB)
Pulley Crunches
Bench Press
I am also going to try 2x15, 3x10, 6x5 setup with the sets. When it gets to the 5's though, I will treat the Dips and Bench Press as one "exercise" so that I do 3 sets each.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Therefor I think if you bench 150 pounds you should be able to row 150 pounds...if people were to keep everything balanced along with proper rotator cuff work (which I dont do) shoulders would be more healthy....just my opinion.</div>
Rows and Bench are pretty much the same for me actually.
Tom Treutlein
New Member
Rows should be about 80% of your bench. I got this number out of my ass.
But really, they shouldn't be exact, 'cause the mechanics of the row are against you compared to the bench, so it's understandable if your bench is higher. It will be for most everyone.
As long as you don't bench double what you row or anything.
Rotator work is good. Windmills are what I tend to stick to now. I don't like doing TONS of rehab/prehab/isolation stuff. It starts to piss me off. Seriously, I've just gotten so fed up with higher-repped arm work, then static and dynamic core work, and THEN rotator cuff work, that I slam down the dumbbells and just storm into the shower, ready to call it a night.
Ahhhh, angry youth (which, in turn, means high test levels)!
But really, they shouldn't be exact, 'cause the mechanics of the row are against you compared to the bench, so it's understandable if your bench is higher. It will be for most everyone.
As long as you don't bench double what you row or anything.
Rotator work is good. Windmills are what I tend to stick to now. I don't like doing TONS of rehab/prehab/isolation stuff. It starts to piss me off. Seriously, I've just gotten so fed up with higher-repped arm work, then static and dynamic core work, and THEN rotator cuff work, that I slam down the dumbbells and just storm into the shower, ready to call it a night.
Ahhhh, angry youth (which, in turn, means high test levels)!
tocamjapan
New Member
Fausto, is there a reason for doing 6 sets during your 5s?
Do you have any specific goals for this particular cycle?
I still think you should chuck in a separate day for arm work. People say your arms receive enough from indirect stimulation from the big lifts. I have found this in my case to be totally and utterly untrue.
Do you have any specific goals for this particular cycle?
I still think you should chuck in a separate day for arm work. People say your arms receive enough from indirect stimulation from the big lifts. I have found this in my case to be totally and utterly untrue.
Fausto
HST Expert
Tom
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">if bench f...... with the shoulders so much</div>
Tsss, tsss, not necessary to use French, please! Not being a prude, just that we try to avoid this type of approach here, as it is already so common in other BB boards
Chris
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Experts? Jirre, Fausto, ek't gedink jy's die expert.</div>
Dankie, Chris, ek probeer....maar ek is nie niks speciaal nie.
Anyway my Afrikaans is very poor indeed!
I hear you though, and I may even consider dropping the volume some if...and only if...I am struggling.
Not intending to drop Mil Press, but may have to due to injury (current)
I must say I am overwhelmed, lots of opnions, and guys...there are others whom I would consider as experts, many of you could fit into this category.
I have re-thought this out and because of opinions I would then do this:
A - Squat/Bench/Chins/Rotator cuff work+Mil press(If shoulder is better)*
B - Deadlift/Bench/Cable Row/Rotator cuff work+Mil press*
ABS & Core work on off days +_ some curls/Tricep work
Twice p/week Tabata to maintain Fat at bay!
Tocam
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fausto, is there a reason for doing 6 sets during your 5s?Do you have any specific goals for this particular cycle?</div>
To maintain volume constant at 30 reps.
Goal? Well what do we do here? Chase hypertrophy of course! But to see how it higher volume will benefit me. As you can see the workout is as simple as it can be
Colby I read ya, I have changed my set up somewhat, but maintained it very simple.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">if bench f...... with the shoulders so much</div>
Tsss, tsss, not necessary to use French, please! Not being a prude, just that we try to avoid this type of approach here, as it is already so common in other BB boards
Chris
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Experts? Jirre, Fausto, ek't gedink jy's die expert.
</div>Dankie, Chris, ek probeer....maar ek is nie niks speciaal nie.
Anyway my Afrikaans is very poor indeed!
Not intending to drop Mil Press, but may have to due to injury (current)
I must say I am overwhelmed, lots of opnions, and guys...there are others whom I would consider as experts, many of you could fit into this category.
I have re-thought this out and because of opinions I would then do this:
A - Squat/Bench/Chins/Rotator cuff work+Mil press(If shoulder is better)*
B - Deadlift/Bench/Cable Row/Rotator cuff work+Mil press*
ABS & Core work on off days +_ some curls/Tricep work
Twice p/week Tabata to maintain Fat at bay!
Tocam
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fausto, is there a reason for doing 6 sets during your 5s?Do you have any specific goals for this particular cycle?</div>
To maintain volume constant at 30 reps.
Goal? Well what do we do here? Chase hypertrophy of course! But to see how it higher volume will benefit me. As you can see the workout is as simple as it can be
Colby I read ya, I have changed my set up somewhat, but maintained it very simple.
<div>
(Fausto @ Jun. 06 2006,10:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Tom
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">if bench f...... with the shoulders so much</div>
Tsss, tsss, not necessary to use French, please! Not being a prude, just that we try to avoid this type of approach here, as it is already so common in other BB boards
Chris
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Experts? Jirre, Fausto, ek't gedink jy's die expert.</div>
Dankie, Chris, ek probeer....maar ek is nie niks speciaal nie.
Anyway my Afrikaans is very poor indeed!
I hear you though, and I may even consider dropping the volume some if...and only if...I am struggling.
Not intending to drop Mil Press, but may have to due to injury (current)
I must say I am overwhelmed, lots of opnions, and guys...there are others whom I would consider as experts, many of you could fit into this category.
I have re-thought this out and because of opinions I would then do this:
A - Squat/Bench/Chins/Rotator cuff work+Mil press(If shoulder is better)*
B - Deadlift/Bench/Cable Row/Rotator cuff work+Mil press*
ABS & Core work on off days +_ some curls/Tricep work
Twice p/week Tabata to maintain Fat at bay!
Tocam
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fausto, is there a reason for doing 6 sets during your 5s?Do you have any specific goals for this particular cycle?</div>
To maintain volume constant at 30 reps.
Goal? Well what do we do here? Chase hypertrophy of course! But to see how it higher volume will benefit me. As you can see the workout is as simple as it can be
Colby I read ya, I have changed my set up somewhat, but maintained it very simple.
</div>
fausto that is very much like my last cycle exept instead of 6 sets on 5s i just did 5 sets..doing this workout i think twice a week is enough especially when you get to the 5s
(Fausto @ Jun. 06 2006,10:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Tom
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">if bench f...... with the shoulders so much</div>
Tsss, tsss, not necessary to use French, please! Not being a prude, just that we try to avoid this type of approach here, as it is already so common in other BB boards
Chris
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Experts? Jirre, Fausto, ek't gedink jy's die expert.
</div>Dankie, Chris, ek probeer....maar ek is nie niks speciaal nie.
Anyway my Afrikaans is very poor indeed!
Not intending to drop Mil Press, but may have to due to injury (current)
I must say I am overwhelmed, lots of opnions, and guys...there are others whom I would consider as experts, many of you could fit into this category.
I have re-thought this out and because of opinions I would then do this:
A - Squat/Bench/Chins/Rotator cuff work+Mil press(If shoulder is better)*
B - Deadlift/Bench/Cable Row/Rotator cuff work+Mil press*
ABS & Core work on off days +_ some curls/Tricep work
Twice p/week Tabata to maintain Fat at bay!
Tocam
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fausto, is there a reason for doing 6 sets during your 5s?Do you have any specific goals for this particular cycle?</div>
To maintain volume constant at 30 reps.
Goal? Well what do we do here? Chase hypertrophy of course! But to see how it higher volume will benefit me. As you can see the workout is as simple as it can be
Colby I read ya, I have changed my set up somewhat, but maintained it very simple.
fausto that is very much like my last cycle exept instead of 6 sets on 5s i just did 5 sets..doing this workout i think twice a week is enough especially when you get to the 5s