Olive oil

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (Fausto @ Jan. 17 2006,10:35)]Guys
EFA's have many sources, the best is to take from different sources, thebest to my knowledge is Flax seed oil, but here's a link to a real good source of information.
UDO Erasmus
I think I'd be a bit reluctnat to kill olive oil as that bit of article does, overeager scientists?
Yet to take olive oil as the sole source of EFA's is not correct, it is a fattening oil if used incorrectly, IMO.
Anyway the page is taking too long to load look up the article
"fats that heal, fats that kill" it is well written and informative, I have it but it is too long to load.
Cheers

ya think?

Udo claims a whole lotta things, some that are backed up and a lot that are not. Including his questionable PhD

 

[Fausto]

Ok Aaron

Slap us with something more informative, for instance, what is the RDA for active people.

By all means, I'll agree to see other articles, my aim is to learn more and when I can download to someone less informed, hell at HST that happens very seldom which is a goood thing I guess.

I am not claiming much knowledge either whilst I won't question his PhD, I thought his article was fairly informative.

But - let's see some more stuff, research...only if it is informative and conclusive else it is useless.

Although we are on the 21st century we are still relating most of the RDA on supplementation (vitamins, minerals, anti-oxidants) to when existing, sedentary people (is this the state of the rest of the world?), and then only for certain viatmins and a few minerals, man...it is like trying to imagine why the pyramids where built and by whom and for what?

 

[Fausto]

Guys
Here is something I found to be rather informative with research sources and a writer whom deciphers the hyerogliphics for those less inclined to understand pure research.

Quote[/b] ]A Fat Is Not A Fat
In this section, I'd like to demonstrate that not all fats were created equal. Specifically, I'll briefly discuss:
1. Fat Structure - Fatty Acid Chains and TGs
2. MCTs - Medium Chain Triglycerides
3. Olive Oil - Monounsaturated Fatty Acids
4. CLA - Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids
5. Fish Oil - Omega 3 Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids
As discussed in The Fat Roundtable, there are three different types of fatty acids; saturated (coming from animal fats), monounsaturated (coming from olive oil and avocados), and polyunsaturated (coming from flax oil, hemp oil, fish oil, canola oil, safflower oil, etc). Dietary fat, rather than simply floating around as free fatty acids, typically is packaged up in the form of a triglyceride. Basically, a triglyceride consists of 3 fatty acids (usually all of the same type) bound together by a glycerol backbone. Essentially, the glycerol backbone has 3 carbons and a fatty acid is attached (via a dehydration/synthesis reaction) to each of the 3 carbons.
Based on this structural phenomenon, scientists have recently begun exploring an interesting development in fat science. They've begun making "structured lipids." In essence what they're doing is making diacylglyerols (2 of the carbons have fatty acids attached while 1 does not) and special triacylglycerols (where there are fats of different lengths and properties attached to each carbon).
In clinical studies, these structured lipids have been shown to increase protein synthesis in patients suffering from wasting. In addition, these fats are easily oxidized (like the long chain fatty acids in fish oil) which leads to a thermogenic response rather than a storage response. As a result these structured lipids are now being heavily studied. While they're not on shelves yet, I wouldn't be surprised if these structured lipids become food additives in the near future.
MCT's and CLA, probably due to their early introduction to the weightlifting scene and the huge media hype associated with this introduction, have gotten a bad reputation. These fats may, in fact, assist in weight loss. MCT's, due to their medium chain length, are easily oxidized by skeletal muscle. This is due to the fact that MCT's are quickly and easily transported to the fat furnace, the mitochondrion. As a result, research (Hill et al 1989) has demonstrated that TEF (thermogenic effect) with MCTs is double that of other fats, making it comparable to protein in this regard.
CLA has remained a relative mystery to the research community. This is probably due to the various forms (isomers) of CLA. Regardless, some research (Blankson et al 2000) has shown that 12 weeks of CLA supplementation (at doses above 3.4g/day) can increase LBM and decrease fat mass vs. olive oil. While the olive oil group gained 1.5 lbs of fat and no lean body mass, the CLA group lost 4.5 lbs of fat and gained 3 lbs of LBM.
Speaking of olive oil, even this "good fat" is better than saturated fat for body composition. In a study comparing safflower oil, beef fat, palm fat, and olive oil, it was shown that olive oil leads to a 14% higher oxygen consumption rate than the other fats.
Finally, if you've been around the T-mag community for a while you'll know that my favorite fats are those in fish oil. Delarue et al (1996) showed that fish oil supplementation (6g/day added to the diet) dramatically changed the metabolism of fats and carbohydrates.
During an OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test - drinking a big 75g whack of liquid sugar and measuring the subjects for 2 hours afterward), the fish oil group burned 27g of fat vs. 20g in the placebo group. The fish oil group also burned 28g or carbs while storing 36g and the placebo group burned 51g of carbs while storing only 14g.
In addition, baseline insulin was 30% lower in fish oil group and insulin responses to OGTT were 50% lower in the fish oil group. What this tells us is that fish oil allows the body to burn more fat and store more muscle glycogen, repartitioning fuel away from fat cells toward muscle cells.
Since fish oils are polyunsaturated fats, it's important to not only increase fish-oil intake, it's important to shift the ratio of polyunsaturated fat to saturated fat (P/S). Van Marken, Lichtenbelt et al (1997) showed that the polyunsaturated fat to saturated fat ratio is important to metabolic rate. A higher ratio of P/S leads to metabolic increases (22% increase in TEF and 3% increase in daily RMR).
So, if there's one thing you need to take from this discussion, I think it should be that, all else being equal, the fat composition (not just total intake) of your diet is very important to your body composition.
Saturated fats, while necessary to a small extent, should only make up a small part of your diet while other fats like olive oil, fish oil, flax oil, MCTs, and CLA all have a place on your plate.

This way you can get the same amount of daily energy from fats while gaining lean mass and without gaining body fat.

The point I was trying to make is in bold.

Cheers

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (Fausto @ Jan. 19 2006,9:36)]I am not claiming much knowledge either whilst I won't question his PhD, I thought his article was fairly informative.

The fats that heal and fats that kill is a ok book, but full of basic errors, and some pretty bogus epidemiology.

From some of the reports on the internet he has falsified a lot of information about him having a PhD at all.

Quote[/b] ]

Although we are on the 21st century we are still relating most of the RDA on supplementation (vitamins, minerals, anti-oxidants) to when existing, sedentary people (is this the state of the rest of the world?), and then only for certain viatmins and a few minerals, man...it is like trying to imagine why the pyramids where built and by whom and for what?

I would awnser if I knew what you were actually saying

 

[Fausto]

Simple Aaron

Recommended dairy allowances for most vitamins minerals etc are based on sedentary people requirements, which is a bit misleading for us, isn't it?

I have found a few but very few people who present RDA's for body builders or other active people, maybe I am just being too fussy

 

[stevie]

Quote[/b] ]Remember that Omega3 is not ONE fatty acid, it is a collection of fatty acids characterised by a double bond three carbons down from the methyl end of the fatty acid.

the body cannot insert a double bond at position 3 (omega 3) or position 6 (omega 6) because we lack the enzyme to do so. We can elongate the shorter chain fatty acids into longer chain, so only the short chain are officially essential (because essential in nutrition sense means that it cannot be made within the body).

The Essential fatty acids are

Linoleic acid (LA) - an Omega 6 fatty acid

Alpha linolenic acid (ALA) - an Omega 3 fatty acid

Fish predominantly contains eicosapenaenoic (EPA - omega 3) and docosahexaenoic (DHA - omega 3) acid.

Quote[/b] ]flax is one of the richest sources of n-3 efa's

so after all the increadible amount of fuss that has been made over the importance of consuming EFAs...mainly in in the form of fish oils...there is actually no point in supplementing with fish oil or concentrated EPA/DHA blends?

So then two questions:
1)How do you get adequate LA and ALA in your diet (without supplementation)
2)How might one effectively supplement one's diet inorder to obtain sufficient LA and ALA?...flax seeds? flax oil?

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (Fausto @ Jan. 21 2006,2:31)]Simple Aaron
Recommended dairy allowances for most vitamins minerals etc are based on sedentary people requirements, which is a bit misleading for us, isn't it?
I have found a few but very few people who present RDA's for body builders or other active people, maybe I am just being too fussy

Dairy?

From the research that has been done on active people, it doenst really change the RDAs, except in some cases where sweat losses is greater.

Next to nobody will do bodybuilding research, because there is more people playing ping pong than will ever do bodybuilding.

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (stevie @ Jan. 21 2006,9:21)]so after all the increadible amount of fuss that has been made over the importance of consuming EFAs...mainly in in the form of fish oils...there is actually no point in supplementing with fish oil or concentrated EPA/DHA blends?
So then two questions:

no, there is points to supplement with DHA/EPA based oils, but EFAs they are not.

Quote[/b] ]1)How do you get adequate LA and ALA in your diet (without supplementation)

Adequate LA/ALA within the diet, eat a variety of nuts and seeds

Quote[/b] ]2)How might one effectively supplement one's diet inorder to obtain sufficient LA and ALA?...flax seeds? flax oil?

A variety of oils is the simplest way, but thats just food

 

[Fausto]

Aaron

I mean't daily not dairy, sorry!

I get your drift!

 

[style]

I just take Udo's choice. Am I getting all the EFA's I need?

thanks