Oral 1-AD and transdermal 4-AD two week cycle

R

restless

New Member
Here's a progress report from my first experience with pro hormones.

I started the cycle 8 days ago with:

300 mg 1-AD
450 mg 4-AD (homemade transdermal)

I started at this moderate dosage to access tolerance and upped both to my planned full dose after 4 days. I've taken for the last 4 days the following:

400 mg 1-AD
600 mg 4-AD (Always transdermal)

So far I'm very pleased with results, but think it's too early to make a proper judgement. Before this I had a HST cycle that had to be aborted during the ten's and then I took a twelve day layoff (SD).

I've gained a total of 4 kilos (roughly 9 pounds) and today at the gyms I got comments about how much bigger I look. I don't think this weight increase so far is that spectacular for the following reasons:

- After the decondicioning period I always regain up to 2 kilos of glycogen/water weight in the first week of training.

- This weight is regained weight. I lost over 30 pounds from January to July.

- The increased calories, almost 800 above what I was taking before would by themselves, and taking into consideration the previous points, be reponsible for a considerable increase in weight.

Neverthless, there's still 8 more days to go at full dosage and anything that comes after this will definitly impress me.

All measurements have increased, except calves (the bastards...).

Biceps up 6 and 7 mm
Legs up 5 mm
Chest up 1.3 cm
Waist up 1.5 cm

I feel and look bloated and look bigger.

Strength was up today, but it's hard to quantify how much as I'm not working anywhere near my maximum.

Side effects included some serious lethargy and tiredness the first few days from 1-AD, some significant increases in sex drive, headaches and some itchy nipples, but no lumps or swelling at all.

Post cycle will be some formastin, as I also wanted something that could double as a on cycle anti estrogen.

More latter as I progress into this.
 
Day nine and I'm up 5 Kg, or eleven pounds.

I look bloated. My face is almost as round as it was before I lost weight. Not as much but almost.

Strength was up again today, stes were a lot easier than I expected. 6 more days to go
 
Couple questions:

- how did you time this w/ your HST cycle?

- have you increased volume much over what your normal HST cycle would be? if not do you plan to, either now or post-cycle?

- what are your dietary plans, post-cycle, in terms of calories & macros, compared to when on?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (jsraaf @ Sep. 24 2003,11:51)]Couple questions:
- how did you time this w/ your HST cycle?
Click to expand...

This is the plan.

I started my cycle straight with the ten reps portion after an eleven days decondicioning. Like I said, I had aborted my previous cycle during ten's so I think I'm pretty decondicioned.


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]- have you increased volume much over what your normal HST cycle would be? if not do you plan to, either now or post-cycle?
Click to expand...


Yes I did. I'm training three on, one off, two on, one off and I'm using three sets per coumpound and one or two set for isolation. Up to 16 sets X 5 per week. Always full body.


The routine's like this, alternated:


Workout A
Front Squat X3
SLDL X2
Bench press X3
Seated rows on pulley X3
Lateral raises X1 or sometimes 2
Bent over lateral raises X1 or sometimes 2
Shrughs X1
One legged donkey calf raises with dip belt X 1 or two


Workout B
Leg extension X3
Leg curl X3
Adductors machine X1
Dips X3
Wide grip pull ups X3
Lateral raises X1 or sometimes 2
Bent over lateral raises X1 or sometimes 2
Shrughs X1
One legged donkey calf raises with dip belt X 1 or two


I did three sets for biceps thus far. Mainly to impress the girls....

laugh.gif


I'll be on untill I'm using around my 8 RM and then off for two weeks during fives. I'll repeat loads up to three times during these two weeks.

I'l then be two more weeks on and will hit my 5 RM's and stay there for the lenght of the cycle. I might capitalize on the strenght gains then, as long as I keep below my 2 RM.

I'll then be off for four weeks. During these four weeks I'll do negatives untill I fell natural test normal again and then do a 9 day decondicioning and start it all over.


I'll possibly do 3 HST cycles like this, and then a few assisted cutting cycles. If pro-hormones last this long, that is.


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]- what are your dietary plans, post-cycle, in terms of calories & macros, compared to when on?
Click to expand...


Good question. If I keep eatuing like this I'll soon be a fatass in no time. I'l eat above maintenance, like 500 calories above.
Macros have been around the 25% pro, 25% fat and 50% carb while on.

Almost 1.5 gr of protein per pound of bodyweight.

I'll lower protein to one gr per pound while off and calories will be around 3500, as opposed to the 4200- 4500 I'm consuming now.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (jsraaf @ Sep. 24 2003,11:52)]oops...
- and what about sides from the androgen?
Click to expand...
Besides the ones I already mentioned, I don't have much to report. Most users report more serious side effcts after the third week or so, which is one of the reasons I opted for two weekers. I do feel that my prostate is going to start complaining soon though.
 
I'm currently running a 4 week NorAderm/4AD cycle in conjunction w/ HST.

I need to increase my volume some, I think, but after 1.5 weeks my gains are encouraging (at day 10, weight up 7.5 lb and all measurements up as well). May go again when finished; we'll see.

Curious - any particular reason for the 1AD?
 
Restless (and Arbitro):

Pay close attention post-cycle to nutrition. While you are on you can eat sloppy (and if you're like me, you can get complacent). I packed on a lot of good weight on a 4 week 1-T/4-AD cycle, and then watched much of it evaporate afterward. (I still think I achieved some body composition changes, so I am still pleased.)

The reason I bring this up is Restless mentioned reducing calories and achieving this (at least in part) by reducing protein intake. If you reduce calories at all, I'd suggest doing it by reducing your carbs. I'd also suggest keeping the same level of protein intake.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
 
Thanks Jon. I was thinking the same thing in terms of keeping protein high & reducing carbs instead. Thanks for confirming what I suspected.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Arbitro @ Sep. 25 2003,12:42)]Curious - any particular reason for the 1AD?
Click to expand...
Yes. Transdermal 1-test would be my first choice but all I can order from within the EU are 1-test ether products which perform very poorly as transdermals. Even the 4-ad I bought as caps, filtered them and added them to a home made transdermal mix.

Ordering from outside the Eu is not an option as it won't get trough customs.

Just that.
 
I would keep proteinintake high while on because synthesis is higher...also carbohydrates - insulin....

what do you think about 2weeks on / 2 off...taking anti estro. during the 2 offs....I think this souldnt pull my testo prod. that much down...I think Ill do affter 2x2 weeks on/off Ill do the sd...what do you think about it?

I think dosages about 1AD 600mg
4AD 800-1000mg

both orally...

maybe I am going to switch to 1test and 4ad next cycle...?!

hey If you want to order go to

www.1fast400.com or www.bodybuilding.com they deliver also to europe and if you ll choose ground-transport (4-6weeks) it isnt that expensive...or www.hardcore-shop.co.uk
 
Day 13:


Weight up another Kg, so I had a total of 6 kg (around 13 pounds) increase in these 13 days.

All measurements are up, including 0.4 cm on calves, which at the rate they usually grow equals around 6 months of normal natural bulking.

Some new side effects:

Irritated and dry skin from the homebrew transdermal mix. This is not attributable to the PH itself and can surely be avoided by rotating application spots more often.

Some acne. Nothing much but noticeable for me.

Some very intense night sweats which have been seriously disturbing my already poor quality of sleep.


Measurements:



Arms +0.9 cm
Legs +1.5 cm
Calves +0.4 cm
Chest +2.5 cm
Waist +2 cm

The conclusion thus far is that extra volume does pay off when on androgens. The muscle groups that had the higher volume (chest and back with 3X5 sets each) grew the better.

Waist increased a bit too much for my liking but untill I lose whatever water weight I gained I'm not drwing any definite conclusions.

Strength is also up but again, hard to say how much.
 
which do you think are the best cycle-lenghts? I am told everything between 2on/2off to 4on/4off? what do you think?
 
yeah, about the ones were talking sorry:-) 1ad stacked with 4ad or 1test stacked with 4ad...
 
I did 4 weeks 1-test/4-AD, which produced great results but also a precipitous decline post-cycle. I seem to have established a new "sticking point" or equilibrium, up from 235 to 240, and I think somewhat leaner than I was at 235. But I'd been up 18 lbs at one point during the cycle, so it's tough to see it go.

I'd definitely recommend either shorter iterated cycles, or longer ones. I think 4 weeks gives you all the drawbacks of a longer cycle without the benefit of prolonged (6-8 weeks) exposure to the androgens.

Also on this topic, I noticed 1fast400 has cyclo 1-test coming soon. So that's another oral option.
 
Everybody (at Avant, anyhow) keeps talking about 2 on/2 off (or 1 on/1 off) for an extended period of time, but I'm not seeing much in terms of feedback on this approach. Everyone talking, nobody doing.

You might want to check there & see what you can dig up.

I'm curious about it, as I plan to do another 4-week Nor-Aderm cycle (after 4 weeks off from this one), and would consider doing something else again but not sure what I'd try, or for how long.

I don't know that I could do a transdermal longer than 4 weeks, though; after 2.5 it's getting rather tiresome. :confused:
 
Finished the on portion of this experiment and here's the result.

I lost two pounds in one day due to some very heavy work under extreme temperatures. I sweated a lot and probably had to little water.

I regained half a kilo yesterday so I finished at 5,5 kg (12 pounds) above starting weight.

Measurements:

Biceps: +1.7 cm and 1,2 cm (The difference between them is now even more acentuated)
Quads +1,5 cm both legs
Chest +2 cm (I don't think this one was accurate at all)
Calves +0,9 cm and 0,4 cm
Waist +1,5 cm

Now, this is a suspiciously big increase in measurements and I believe if this was all muscle it would result in a lot more weight gain and honestly I suspect it's mostly water and glycogen. The next two weeks before my next cycle will tell.

For the record, I'm doing at least three of these in a 2on/2off/2on/2off/2on/4off fashion.

For this post cycle I'm using transdermal aromazap (50mg day) and for the next I'll be using transdermal 6-oxo.
 
1. why didnt you increase number of sets while on?

2. why this short on cycles? if you use anti-estrogen anyway...?

3. do you still do 15's and SD?
 
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