Oral 1-AD and transdermal 4-AD two week cycle

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Wolge @ Oct. 05 2003,6:41)]1. why didnt you increase number of sets while on?

I did increase them. I almost doubled volume and last week I trained full body everyday with up to three sets per muscle group.

Quote[/b] ]2. why this short on cycles? if you use anti-estrogen anyway...?

Why not? The gains are similar in the long term, you keep more of them post cycle and side effects are minimal.

Quote[/b] ]3. do you still do 15's and SD?

No 15's. I start at 10's and go up to my 8 RM, then I repeat loads three times during two weeks of five's while off, then two weeks at 5 RM while on, and two or three weeks on negatives post cycle. Shorter SD (8 days or so) and start again.


For the record, I've lost one kg after 5 days of post cycle. I'm now 5 kg heavier and will post measurements in a while.

I've been using transdermal formastine at around 50 mg/day and I mustsay aromazap capsules are a pain in the but to make into a transdermal.

I've found this compound very effective as 24 hours post cycle my sex drive was back and possibly higher than pre cycle.

 

[Guest]

1. a trainer told me that prohormones hit in really first 10 days after starting to use them so it wouldnt be the best choice to do just 2 week cycles because you stop intake bevor they really hit in??? did you also do somwhen 4on/4off cycles?

2. didnt you have probelms with a frequenzy of up to 6 days full body workout and higher amount of reps? (wasnt it to much? even with phs?) what do you think about 6 half body workouts?

3. did you also overfeed all the time?

4. did you do even when you trained 6 times a week, a full two week cycle for each rep-scheme? with increatments in each session?


i would be really please if you could answer these questions, thank you very much

 

[Arbitro]

Quote[/b] ]Shorter SD (8 days or so) and start again.

Why, unless your joints are complaining? I know you are very knowledgable, and I am not criticizing your approach. I ask only because I will be coming off in 1 week, plan to take 4 weeks off & do another 4 week cycle. I'm considering how to structure the 4 off weeks & where to begin the HST cycle for myself.

 

[Arbitro]

Restless, you might want to consider a lower 4AD dosing, maybe around 200mg daily, if you feel you gained too much water weight.

 

[Jon Stark]

Quote[/b] (restless @ Oct. 05 2003,12:51)]I've found this compound very effective as 24 hours post cycle my sex drive was back and possibly higher than pre cycle.

Be cautious... I experienced a nice "afterglow" after my 4 week cycle which led me to declare premature victory over test suppression. The nadir didn't really come for me on my first day off-cycle. In fact, I think I might have even hit some personal best lifts on my first day off.

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Wolge @ Oct. 06 2003,10:32)]1. a trainer told me that prohormones hit in really first 10 days after starting to use them so it wouldnt be the best choice to do just 2 week cycles because you stop intake bevor they really hit in??? did you also do somwhen 4on/4off cycles?

I don't know about that. To me, it makes no sense at all since pro-hormones are fast acting short half life compounds. I think people mistake the time frame where results start to become really obvious with the time frame where the start "hitting you".


No, This was my first. I'm rather pleased and for now I'm not changing the strategy.

Quote[/b] ]2. didnt you have probelms with a frequenzy of up to 6 days full body workout and higher amount of reps? (wasnt it to much? even with phs?) what do you think about 6 half body workouts?

I increased sets, not really reps. The strength gains were not half as significant as the size gains anyway.

I did feel rather tired by the end though.

I can't live without full body workouts. Really. I just leave the gym with a feeling that something's missing that bothers me. It's just a personal thing though. Half body should also work.

Quote[/b] ]3. did you also overfeed all the time?

Kind of. 4000 Kcals a day in three solid meals and per and post workout shakes. Not that much for me. I'm just not willinbg to get as fat as I was last year.

Quote[/b] ]4. did you do even when you trained 6 times a week, a full two week cycle for each rep-scheme? with increatments in each session?

For the on portion yes, increments every session. Now that I'm off I dropped reps to 5 and I'm using the same loads up to three times.

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Arbitro @ Oct. 06 2003,10:41)]

Quote[/b] ]Shorter SD (8 days or so) and start again.

Why, unless your joints are complaining? I know you are very knowledgable, and I am not criticizing your approach. I ask only because I will be coming off in 1 week, plan to take 4 weeks off & do another 4 week cycle. I'm considering how to structure the 4 off weeks & where to begin the HST cycle for myself.

Well, it's important to me for psychological reasons. I'm still not sure about htis though. I guess I'll have to see how I feel when I get to the end of the negative weeks.

Keeps us posted on your experience. If you want use this thread as a journal, I don't mind.

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Jon Stark @ Oct. 06 2003,11:50)]

Quote[/b] (restless @ Oct. 05 2003,12:51)]I've found this compound very effective as 24 hours post cycle my sex drive was back and possibly higher than pre cycle.

Be cautious... I experienced a nice "afterglow" after my 4 week cycle which led me to declare premature victory over test suppression. The nadir didn't really come for me on my first day off-cycle. In fact, I think I might have even hit some personal best lifts on my first day off.

lol, I think this is what happened to me. My sex drive as been ok but it comes and goes at it's pleasure. I'm now lowering formastine to 25 mg per day and I'm also ordering prescription auxiliar drugs.

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Arbitro @ Oct. 06 2003,10:52)]Restless, you might want to consider a lower 4AD dosing, maybe around 200mg daily, if you feel you gained too much water weight.

Thanks for the advice. I actually don't mind it and if it's a concern next cycle I'll just had around 25 mg of transdermal formasine to the mix.

For the record, this next homebrew will have:

50 % Isopropyl alcohol
25 % Isopropyl myristate
10 % Oleic acid
10 % DMSO
5 % Propilene glycol

This first one had more 5 % of both oleic acid and PG and no DMSO.

Haven't weighted myself today but measurements seem to be holding on.

 

[restless]

Weight was yesterday down another pound, so I'm now 10 pounds above starting weight 8 days into post cycle.

I'm very impressed with formastin, but I think I overdid it big time.

Although I lost most if not all of the water bloating I had before and look much better, even leaner, I think the dosage I used (50 mg transdermal) might have contributed to some HPTA shut down on it's own.

I was doing some research on this compound and it seems the oral bioavaliability of it is very poor, like 1%. So, at the maximum recommended dosage of 250 mg you're probably only getting 2.5 mg into your system. Using the DMSO formula that should have an estimated absorption rate of 40 % I might have been getting 20 mg of it into my system.

I have cut down to 12,5 mg per day. It becomes a very affordable compound at this dosage.

Sex drive is not that good yet and if it doesn't come back I'll have to delay next on portion.

 

[restless]

11 days post cycle and I'm still 9-10 pounds above starting weight.

Though I don't have any way to judge it's efficacy compared to other anti estrogens since I didn't use any others, transdermal formasin works very well. I actually look leaner than I did post cycle probably from the decreased estrogen.

At the dosage I'm using one bottle would last 360 days.

 

[Calkid]

What about ending measurements, etc?

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Calkid @ Oct. 12 2003,12:35)]What about ending measurements, etc?

Right, I'll get to that monday (last day post cycle BTW) as I've done inicial measurements three hours after workout and I forgot to do them today so for the sake of accuracy I want to do them at the same time. I did check my arm and I think I lost around 25% of what I gained.

Also, I'm not sure if I won't try a four week cycle this next time. Using prescription auxiliar drugs post cycle.

 

[Guest]

hey restless...what do you think about nutrition as following:

2 weeks on / 4 weeks off

while on, bulking like a cow (not that hard, just about +500 kcal a day)

while off, something similar like keto or ud2.0 (depleting glyko. during the week and loading on the weekend, more to loose body fat than gaining wheight)

what do you think about that? If I bulk the whole time, I think this would be to much...

 

[Arbitro]

My opinion is if you do that, you will

1) not gain much, not enough cals to support increased protein synthesis & growth - you may lean out a little

2) you will lose anything you gain if you reduce cals in that manner while off

Diet is probably #1 when on androgens.

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Wolge @ Oct. 14 2003,9:57)]hey restless...what do you think about nutrition as following:
2 weeks on / 4 weeks off
while on, bulking like a cow (not that hard, just about +500 kcal a day)
while off, something similar like keto or ud2.0 (depleting glyko. during the week and loading on the weekend, more to loose body fat than gaining wheight)
what do you think about that? If I bulk the whole time, I think this would be to much...

It's a dangerous aproach to diet post androgen cycle I believe. Even with a short cycle there will be some HPTA supression and lower testosterone levels coupled with low calories is not exactly the ideal case scenario in what concerns muscle growth. I would alternate cutting and bulking cycles instead.

 

[restless]

Also, I missed a workout today. I slept like crap and really don't feel like it. My post cycle was plagued with never ending sleep problems that I suspect are related with this cycle. Some I had before, but I had a dificulty in falling asleep that I don't remember having for a long time.

 

[Guest]

hmmm my problem is, I dont like long bulking and cutting cycles (and long means everything longer then 2-3 weeks) because I really put on fat fast...

so how exactly look your b/c cycles? length? I really have to find another solution...how long does your tests level have (with support) to get back to maintenance? which anti-estro. do you use? (Ill probably use 6oxo...)

maybe dieting 1week of 10's, 2week10 + 1week5 (while on) "light" bulking (stng like +300) and then 2week5's + 1 weeks neg bulking +600 and the last week of negs like 1 week of 10's...

thx for reply...

if you use 6oxo thats maybe why youre feeling like crap..(maybe also a little psychological problem right now?) are you using anti depressiva post cycle?

 

[restless]

Ok, final measurements and weight and tomorrow I start another one.

Weight still up 9-10 pounds and I suspect I gained a little fat in this post cycle period.

Arms + 0.7 cm and 0.5 cm
Legs + 1.5 cm for both
Chest + 2.5-3 cm (I don't think I'm accurate at all with these, but there's a significant increase in size there)
Calves + 0.5 cm + 0.3 cm
Waist + 1 cm

I'm still trying to decide if I do 4 or 2 weeks in this one.
Any opinions?

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (Wolge @ Oct. 15 2003,4:50)]hmmm my problem is, I dont like long bulking and cutting cycles (and long means everything longer then 2-3 weeks) because I really put on fat fast...

Well, I understand that. You can always compromise some gains by eating only slighty about mantenance during your cycles, but don't reduce calories post cycle.

Quote[/b] ]so how exactly look your b/c cycles? length? I really have to find another solution...how long does your tests level have (with support) to get back to maintenance? which anti-estro. do you use? (Ill probably use 6oxo...)

I don't have any cutting cycles planned now. I want to bulk to a reasonably lean 220 pounds but I'm not using only PH's.

I'm using Aromazap (formastene). Like I said I wanted something that could double as an effective on cycle anti e and this was the best thing OTC. I quite like. There's no way of saying how long will take your test levels to recover, it depends on the androgen, lenght of cycle, dosage and post cycle therapy.

Quote[/b] ]maybe dieting 1week of 10's, 2week10 + 1week5 (while on) "light" bulking (stng like +300) and then 2week5's + 1 weeks neg bulking +600 and the last week of negs like 1 week of 10's...
thx for reply...

Well, like I said it is possible to do this not putting on that much fat. I'm not sure I understood your plan though. So you'll bulk while off?

Quote[/b] ]if you use 6oxo thats maybe why youre feeling like crap..(maybe also a little psychological problem right now?) are you using anti depressiva post cycle?

I'm stressed out but not really depressed. No anti depressives, I don't like those things.