Poliquin Diet Method (Digestive Health)

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by pete69, Jun 11, 2003.

  1. pete69

    pete69 New Member

    Anyone follow Poliquin's diet method that he uses for his athletes for fat loss. He gets his athletes really lean really fast. I went to his seminar several years ago and have since kept pretty up to date on his recommendations. I'd like to know other's opinions and experiences (if any) on this type of diet. The diet is basically the same type that Dr. Dipasquale, Dr. Serrano, Milos Sarcev and even Dave Palumbo utilize (as well as Beverly International).
    High Protein (1.5 - 2.5g protein per lb bodyweight)
    Moderate fat (up to 90g added from mainly EFA sources)
    Low carbs (50g max from green veggies)

    Basically lean meats, added EFA's (fish oils), and green veggies. Whey workout w/ glutamine/BCAA's postworkout. (As readers here know, preworkout protein should be added as well).

    The diet is followed for 25 days w/ no carbs, then a high carb day/meal (depends on bf%), every 5th day. Although i'm not sure he still recommends the high carb days, b/c a recent article talking about the work he did w/ hockey player Doug Weight, had him eat NO carbs all summer, just lean meats. I think the reason may be b/c evidence that sugar and many carbs can potentially feed parasites, candida, bad bacteria in the GI tract.

    One thing that he puts a lot of emphasis on, and I think this is one of the most overlooked aspects of health as well as improving body composition, is digestive health. He realizes the impact of and tests/treats Leaky gut, food allergies, parasites, candida, etc. Dr. Sherry Rogers has a few great books on the subject, which is fascinating and I think is going to become a big subject in the near future. Another great book is "Patient, Heal Thyself", written by the owner of Garden of Life supplements. I've had bloating, digestive disorders, food allergies, etc for quite a long time and havent been able to lean out b/c of this. By treating these problems w/ proper diet and supplements, i'm getting much better.
  2. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    the only thing that strikes me as odd about that logic is that he's recommending way too much protein such that the excess will wind up glucose anyways...
  3. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Thats wayyyy more complicated than you think, there is basically no evidence available that shows protien has much effect on blood glucose levels. Well at least not in the short term. Protein is obviously deaminated in large quantities, so the carbon chain has to end up somewhere (oxidised via citric acid cycle, converted to glucose, converted to fat) but at this stage there is no evidence to show where it really goes.

    In terms of poliquins diet being wonderful for 'bowel health', its for one major reason. It is a low carbohydrate diet, and some people have GI issues with high carb diets. As soon as you cut the carbs, you stop feeding hte bacteria sugar, so you dont get as gassy etc.
    In terms of long terms bowel health, who kows. the latest stuff from the EPIC studies shows that fibre is protective against bowel cancer, and low carb diets are 'usually' low fibre. Even with 50g of carbs from veges, you would be lucky to get 20-25g fibre from that.
  4. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    are you sure about the no evidence that it has an impact on blood sugar levels? this seems reasonably contradictory to known observation.
  5. Dianabol

    Dianabol Guest

    Thinking aloud:

    High protein diets do have a biochemical advantage over carbohydrate-based diets. This is so because the removal of the amino-N skeleton from proteins to allow for the breakdown of their carbon skeletons is energetically demanding. Transamination and oxidative deamination of protein requires input of ATP. Excretion of breakdown products of protein, requires 4 ATP per mole of urea. It is this ATP cost that gives protein diets their edge over other diets.

    Also, some amino acids are gluconeogenic, in that they can be converted to glucose and from there feed into the TCA cycle. Other amino acids are ketogenic, in that they do not become glucose but become ketone bodies. A diet high in protein aimed at controlling glucose levels might be futile depending on the amino acid composition. On a protein diet, gluconeogenesis will eventually kick-in resulting in the production of glucose and thus, non-starvation of pathogens that require glucose. Thus, the diet must be high in protein, but such protein must only be of ketogenic amino acids. I am not sure if this is healthy, even though it might be possible to do such a thing. Even so, your body would catabolize its own protein stores (e.g. muscle) to fuel gluconeogenesis because of absolute glucose requirements for some tissues (e.g. brain, kidney, RBCs).

    The entry of lipids and/or amino acids into the duodenum signals CCK release, a hormone that cuts appetite. In this way, there is greater and sooner satiety on a protein/fat diet than on a carbohydrate based diet. This means for less protein/fat calories, one might actually feel "fuller" than for the same or more calories on a carbohydrate-based diet.

    With this in mind, we cautiously employ the use of the protein diet for accelerated weight loss simply because of the ATP cost. But this is not a licence for all-out protein feasting as overall calorie balance still plays a great part. L-glutamine taken orally will do little, if at all for muscle growth but the enterocytes of the gut love L-glutamine and also, L-glutamate. The enterocytes actually prefer these amino acids over glucose, and I've read here and there that to keep your enterocytes happy, supplementation with L-glutamine (10-20gm a day?) is good medicine.

    So much so for foregut health. For hindgutgut health you might wish to take probiotic formulas e.g. Yakult, yoghurt. These innoculations can actually improve the health of your hindgut. Studies have shown that a year prior to death, hindgut flora/fauna actually take an abrupt dip in numbers. It is too early to say but perhaps, if that dip can be prevented, life expectancy might increase?

    On any sort of diet, it is recommended that you have adequate fibre. Fibre takes two forms: soluble and insoluble. The former is proclaimed to have direct nutrient-partitioning effects because of its ability to enter the bloodstream (this, to me, is doubtful) while the latter, amongst other things, provides bulk to the food bolus, such bulk aiding gastric motility assuming one drinks enough water. Such fibre ends up being fermented in the hindgut, with such fermentation, the hindgut flora/fauna are being fed but also, volatile fatty acids are produced and these are thought to be anti-carcinogenic. This is helpful especially when you consider that hindgut fermentation of proteins result in VFAs that are thought to be carcinogenic e.g. cadavarine, putriscine. I am sure many of us have experienced one time or another, the runs after having been over-zealous with drinking of protein shakes, too frequent intake of protein. Also, the intake of insoluble fibre is also thought to induce release of glucagon-like peptides - some of these are thought to decrease appetite and may hold promise as treatment for obesity.

    In short, a calorie-controlled high-protein, moderate fat diet coupled with ample leafy, fibrous vegetables, probiotic innoculations and L-glutamine supplementation might just be the best and fastest way to shed the fat. Throw in a mouthful of red wine a day and you won't even think that you're on a diet.

    Godspeed, and happy HSTing :)
  6. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Not much at all, I have been discussing it for a week or so with lyle mcdonald.
    Especially after he provided me with this link

    interesting web page

    there is actually not enough research on the subject to say 100%
    And there is no real isotopic work to show whats happening inside the liver. There is potential that hepatic glucose production is happening all the time, the only difference that protien does is instead of the body using its own stores to produce glucose, it uses the exogenous aminos
  7. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Pity that the available research shows that once you have adequate protein in the diet to limit muscle loss (~1g.lb) there is no advantage of a higher protein diet on fat loss.
    The body is annoying like that, works well in theory, but once you get into research, it shows no advantage. (in theory also, the amino that gets deamintated will supply energy back into the cycle (either via gluconeogenesis, or being fed directly into the citric acid cycle)

    Have you got a reference for ketotic amino's? as aminos can be fed into various sections of the energy cycle, via pyruvate into glucose, via acetyl coA into the Citric acid cycle, or be put directly into the citric acid cycle as intermediates. AcetylcoA can be converted into ketones but this doesnt really make them ketogenic.
    Works for some, but not for everyone. As CCK is only one potential factor in the whole deal, and as a person gets further and further below their set point, leptin will make all other 'messengers' of satiety and appetite mean nothing.
    reference for this? or is it just a guess.
  8. stevie

    stevie New Member

    Also, how does it keep the enterocytes happy? What does it supposedly do for them?
    assmuming that you are totally correct, why not simply include loads of soy sauce in your diet?
  9. pete69

    pete69 New Member

    ANother thing I have noticed as well which seems very odd to me, is this type of diet, even devoid of all carbs, keeps my muscles pretty full, especially w/ extra fat. Before this diet I was doing a pretty low fat diet w/ frequent refeeds, and my muscles were not filling out at all, even w/ some pretty massive carb intakes. I don't understand how this is possible but it seems the extra protein and fats keep me fuller, w/out refeeds. I've heard of some bodybuilders prefering fat loading to carb loading precontest. Perhaps the benefits come from the storage of intramuscular triglycerides in the muscle. My vascularity is also much greater w/ this type of eating, probably b/c the lack of carbs keeps water retention to a minimum since 1g glycogen hold 3g water. Regardless, my muscles look fuller overall w/ the high protein and some added fats, more so than from a carb load.
  10. Cliner9er

    Cliner9er New Member

    Is a "fat" load even possible? Sounds like magic to me. :confused:
  11. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Fat loading is a theory, but more used in endurance exercise

    you are obviously weird, becuase the vast majority of people lose muscle fullness on keto style diets
    Fat loading was a concept prior to competition, but most do carb loadin, following a short depletion (altho this hasnt really been shown to improve muscle size over a resting state anyway)
    intramuscular tags wouldnt create anywhere near the volume that glycogen and the water do. Carbs nad water retention usually only affect intramuscular water retention. It may be that your sodium balance is changed from a higher carb diet, so the interstitial sodim/water is reduced, giving more defitition.
    Most people on a low carb diet lose definition on the low carb section (muscles are smaller, so it can look like you are 'fatter' in terms of proportion of muyscle to fat.
    Once the refeed happens nad the muscles fill up, it looks better.
    You may be one of the freaks™ that have an extremely good response to it.

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