reps

I've always felt that there's a Slapshot out there: smaller, stronger, leaner. So my max lifts are only honorable to me, and as I age, they've gone down regardless of diet and training.
So I reason this: my max 5 is just as relevant to me and my training as anything with less reps.
I like Lol's philosophy: not doing max singles on anything you don't feel safe with. For me, that would be the occasional set of 3's.
Tot is right about people not pushing though: and that includes that max day for any rep range. By the time I get to it, I'm at a weight that I'm not really sure I can do. I make it or I don't.
Today was a classic injury day. I felt a twinge in my knee before my workout as I ran to catch the phone. Last workout i was working 315 squats and when I got to that weight today, it felt like a dump truck on my shoulders. I didn't even make reps; it was like part of my leg was missing.
 
To answer Quad, I'm doing 2 sets of 10s and 5s, and have skipped 15s for the past 1 or 2 cycles. I did decrease my calories over the summer to lean out, which I have. Maybe I do need to eat more. The past couple of cycles I plateaued hard on benchpresses and I'm starting to get nagging joint soreness.
 
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(sp8cemunkie @ Dec. 09 2007,20:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> Maybe I do need to eat more. The past couple of cycles I plateaued hard on benchpresses and  I'm starting to get nagging joint soreness.</div>
Then it's TIME to put 15's back into your cycle and eat EFA's. Joints are tricky devils to maintain when they start going out. Eat more and add another set of fives next cycle and see how you do.
 
Anyone take glucosamine? I thought of it a couple times for some discomfort I have felt in my knees and the area between my left pec and shoulder blade, but I think fish oil is the better solution.
 
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(colby2152 @ Dec. 09 2007,20:09)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Injury prevention w.r.t heavier weights has to do with how you warm up, stretch, as well as your FORM.</div>
Although I agree with WU and Form, I think stretching is overated. But other factors come into play as well, overall health, drug use, nutrition as so on.


JoeM, I have researched injuries in the past and thats why I asked for the research you pointed too.

WRT weighlifting, most injuries are not related to torn muscle tissue, albeit yes it happens but the most common injury is overuse tendon issues and predominatly it's either the knees, sholders or elbows that suffer.

There a several instances of ruptures, both tendon and muscle tissue, but complete ruptures are rarer than hard strains or partial ruptures.

In one analysis looking at 8 pec ruptures in the case reports (granted I am sure many go untreated) two were from drug using BB doing heavy DB pec fly, 1 from a nondrug using BB, and 5 from people doing pushups
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.

So I have to agree with the others here and say that the load itself isn't the issue. It's how long you are lifting the load (IE forced reps, and other &quot;intensifiers&quot;) your form and your overall health.

I have had a small tear in my pec minor, from doing weighted dips, like you and many it was a slip in form and I knew it instantly.
 
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(Dan Moore @ Dec. 09 2007,21:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have had a small tear in my pec minor, from doing weighted dips, like you and many it was a slip in form and I knew it instantly.</div>
Dan do you have any deformity in the muscle?

I do..muscle knotted up in the pecs ( see hst veterans post pic)

Also one of the reason I have posted many threads on pec over the years is it took me a long time to try to get the pecs to catch back up with the rest of my body do to the injury and lack of ability to handle more load.

Are there any studies that show torn muscle have the ability to continue to hypertrophy or does the injury hinder hypertrophy?

Thanks
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Dec. 10 2007,09:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Dan Moore @ Dec. 09 2007,21:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have had a small tear in my pec minor, from doing weighted dips, like you and many it was a slip in form and I knew it instantly.</div>
Dan do you have any deformity in the muscle?

I do..muscle knotted up in the pecs ( see hst veterans post pic)

Also one of the reason I have posted many threads on pec over the years is it took me a long time to try to get the pecs to catch back up with the rest of my body do to the injury and lack of ability to handle more load.

Are there any studies that show torn muscle have the ability to continue to hypertrophy or does the injury hinder hypertrophy?

Thanks</div>
It was the pec minor (anatomically under the pec major) so you can't see it.

I would say they still can grow just fine.
 
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(colby2152 @ Dec. 10 2007,08:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Anyone take glucosamine?</div>
I always avoided both glucosamine and chondroitin -- the names sounded too &quot;made up&quot; and fake. Eventually, joint pain caught up with me and I tried some. When I told my doctor that I was taking it, he said &quot;Excellent! Double the dosage!&quot;

And so I do: I take twice the recommended amount daily. It has been a great help for my hips, legs, and back. Of course, I take EFA's, too -- fish oil and flaxseed oil.

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(Dan @ Dec. 10 2007,09:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">WRT weighlifting, most injuries are not related to torn muscle tissue, albeit yes it happens but the most common injury is overuse tendon issues and predominatly it's either the knees, sholders or elbows that suffer.</div>
Yup, my struggle right now is with my right shoulder. I'm in rehab three times per week (with the little Russian lady who wears a black executioner's hood and says, &quot;This maybe hurt leetle bit&quot;). No wonder I can't bench worth a damn...
 
<div>
(Dan Moore @ Dec. 10 2007,09:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">In one analysis looking at  8 pec ruptures in the case reports (granted I am sure many go untreated) two were from drug using BB doing heavy DB pec fly, 1 from a nondrug using BB, and 5 from people doing pushups  
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.</div>
Who woulda ever thunked that!
ghostface.gif
 
WRT glucosamine and chondroitin, I found that it's sort of like creatine in a way; some are basically nonresponders, and like TR, you have to megadose it. I did 1200 mg each/day for two months before feeling any relief and quit another month later, not getting past the pain level.
I'm now experimenting with 2x/day cissus on an empty stomach (that very brief period when it is almost empty) and fish and flax oil caps all day. I've gotten some relief in just a week. My wrists and hands were getting hard to bend.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This is one issue where I will not relent. Bodybuilders are simply too scared of low reps and I don't see why. It's not like there is some magic where if you only do low reps, you won't grow.</div>

Lol. Tot. Allow me to add to that:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but don’t nobody wanna lift no heavy-ass weight!&quot;
--Ronnie Coleman. http://www.ronniecoleman.com/biography.htm</div>

Whether you get bigger or not with the 5's is, I always thought, irrelevant. As I recall you do them for strength. The cycling nature of HST is actually a form of linear periodization. Is it not? You get stronger to get bigger, for at each level of strength there is likely a maximal level of size.

There are exceptions, but not many. That is why they are exceptions.

So forget size. Are you getting stronger with the 5's or not?

If those of you living in higher-rep ranges are forever getting bigger between SD's, please tell me. Long periods of zero progress are the biggest source of frustration in my training, right next to not enough sleep.

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BTW, random case of the thoughts: The bigger your arms get the amount of muscle necessary to increase them by another inch increases. Each inch gained requires more muscle than the previous inch of increase did. That likely goes for the rest of your body. Its a mathematical relationship and has nothing to do with biology or genetics. Good to know. I will post the math if you want.
 
Quadancer,

I've heard that shark cartilage is also helpful for joint pain/stiffness. A friend of mine has terrible knees. He can't even shop in the mall with his girlfriend for more than 30 minutes and he's only 27. I think he's started taking it in addition to the glucosamine/condroiten and fish oil. If I remember to ask if it works I'll get back to you. A few months ago I asked on this forum about cortisol shots for tendonitis. Anonymous advised me to check out oratropin, an IGF-1 based product for joint repair.

Old and Grey,

Ever looked into HRT or read up on ways to increase natural testosterone? The more you understand it, the better off you'll be. I agree with you: no one considers factors other than stimulating the muscle. Some that are more serious will consider diet. One (legal) way to boost natural test. is to take a finasteride or dutasteride product. Generic Proscar ordered from Canada is an inexpensive way to go. Just talk to your doctor about hair loss or perhaps prostate cancer and ask for a prescription. These compounds work by inhibiting an enzyme that binds to testosterone and converts it into dihydrogen testosterone (DHT). With the enzyme blocked natural test levels will rise because some test is not being converted into DHT. You should get about a 15% test boost. How you respond to that and the medication is a question of individuality.

Another option is to try dessicated liver tablets. According to the author of http://www.weightrainer.net , a very scientific guy, dessicated liver likely contains an enzyme that is the rate-limiter for natural test production. The more of this enzyme you have the more of your natural test potential you can fill out. He admittedly claims no studies but says through talking to other natural lifters and his own experience it seems to help.
 
If I try shark cartilage it will be on it's own so I know if it works or not. I tried Oratropin for a couple of months for GH release: got no results. I didn't think about my joints at the time; didn't know it was also for that. Glucosamine is way cheaper tho.

I believe O&amp;G is on Adrogel. I did it for 2 months recently up to 7-1/2mg/day) to no avail. Now am using an E-blocker (jungle warfare) and I feel MUCH better, if not losing a bit of sleep...at least I feel like working out.
Finasteride and Dutasteride are prescription also, are they not?
Anyway, even with low test, it seems I have an estrogen problem, or free test. I swear I'm growing a bit on the Eblocker. Hitting the wall on strength I think; will deload a bit if so. I'm thinking of switching to the 5x5 techniques to lengthen this cycle.
 
quad. i've added weight to each lift when starting a new cycle. now by the time i'm into the second week of each rep range i feel like i'm maxing out on every lift. don't you reach a point where you just can't lift more weight? sometimes I can't get the 5 reps out on set 2. still add a 3rd?
 
Munkie,

Try resting more between sets. Oly's will rest several minutes. The reason being:
1. Metabolic fatigue subsides by 60 - 90 seconds, usually.
2. The motor cortex of the brain, which is part of the CNS, takes 2 minutes to recover.
3. The muscle does not fully respond to the CNS again for around 5 minutes.

I had this stuff in an abstract somewhere and now I cant find it. All that organization in Zotero and I'm still losing stuff.

Quad,

Yeah they are prescription. But they are candy prescriptions like cough medicine or viagra. Known side effects to fin/dutasteride are loss of libido in 2% of men, of which 50% get it back in a few days, tenderness around breasts, and maybe something like headache or nausea. I take generic proscar and cut it with a razor, taking about 1.25 mg/day. I got it to slow hair loss and along the way discovered the test effects. It hasn't bothered me a bit. If you go for it don't put it on your insurance. You will get flagged for prostate cancer and all sorts of stupid **** will happen to you. Buy it through Canada or do like myself and use your AAA membership. Its 60 bucks a year and will get you 20% off most prescription drugs at major pharmacies. It also gives you tons more benefits like free lock picking if its under $50 (usually is if you arent out in country) or free towing to a nearby garage. I've had to use both.

You know Quad, I may be wrong on this, but I think estrogen is responsible for joint health, or at least a contributor to it. Mmm. Not sure.

As far as sleep goes, try Melatonin. You can pick it up at any drugstore for around 6 bucks. 1.5 mg is enough for most people though it comes in 3 mg. I use the brand from walmart with the purple label and moon on it. Melatonin is the same stuff your brain releases to initiate sleep. Studies have shown it to be harmless. It is also a very potent antioxidant, one of the best if I recall. And it has no effect on muscle growth. I read that in a study. If you wake up feeling like lead you may have to chop the pill in half. I like the lead feeling though, especially on Saturday mornings.

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Other stuff you can try is turkey, almonds, honey, and carbs. Chamomille tea is said to help as well. I swear by Melatonin myself. Green tea will take you down after a tough day or if you want to settle in for some reading. I am mildly ADD and I make a cup before I read at night. If you can get it off the plant it gets real potent. I got a varietal called Dragon Pearl once cause the guy at the tea shop said it was the strongest for relaxation. No joke I was high for about an hour.

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(sp8cemunkie @ Dec. 10 2007,22:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">quad. i've added weight to each lift when starting a new cycle. now by the time i'm into the second week of each rep range i feel like i'm maxing out on every lift. don't you reach a point where you just can't lift more weight? sometimes I can't get the 5 reps out on set 2. still add a 3rd?</div>
Like QP said, try resting more between sets. This seems obvious but a lot of people are still stuck in the rut that a lot of &quot;gurus&quot; have put them in where they think they must minimize rest between sets for maximum growth. This is not so. If minimizing rest means you cannot complete your second set, then it would cause less growth stimulus than if you rested longer and were able to complete the set.

I would sometimes rest 5-10 minutes between sets if it were something very taxing like deadlifts, squats, real heavy rows, etc.



Another thing to consider... if you are missing your second set, then you may want to keep using that weight for another workout. You don't have to increment the weights you use every single workout during the 5s. You can go at least two workouts before you have to worry about, even longer when it gets later in the 5s.
 
Munkie, I concur w/ QP and would add to be sure all your other parameters are in line before working out. On max days you might spend a bit of meditation time beforehand, to get the head into it. On all workouts, you might want to make a carb/protein shake and start sipping it 1/2 hr. beforehand, and continue sipping it through the workout. That helps me greatly.
I weigh 210 and use 50g whey/50g maltodextrin-dextrose mix. (CarboFuel)
I rest a lot between sets for all workouts, due to age and slower recovery, but not so long I lose circulation and breathing acceleration.
QP- didn't know about antiox properties; might get back on it just for that. I have no trouble getting to sleep usually, just staying there. Melatonin didn't keep me there before at triple dosage. My brain and all is really scrood when it comes to supps.- I'd even quit coffee a while back and switched to green tea. I fell prey to my weaknesses a cup at a time and am back on coffee again; probably too much. I don't drink it at night though, so don't go there.
 
thanx to all. I'm definitely going to go with longer rest between sets(about 90 secs. is where I'm at now). also going to alternate dips with bench(just got a tower). more food too. 'preciate the advice and I'm sure I'll be chiming in with more questions. happy holidays!
 
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