Rest-pause Instead Of Normal Sets...

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by _Simon_, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Just curious...

    In the context of a HST cycle, I remember Borge said that it would be best to do myoreps when coming up to the end of a rep range, the last one or two sessions of 15RM and 10RM.

    But would it be a good idea to do myoreps, or even just a rest-pause setup during the submax rampups (early parts of the rep range)? They don't necessarily have to be myoreps, but semi-rest/pause or cluster them just to get those sets to be a little more stimulating?

    So not necessarily doing as many reps as possible in that first set, but sticking with the rep target on the first set, and clustering the rest with short rests between. And that way, by the last session or two of the rep range you can do more myoreps style as you're coming up to your RM.

    Eg first session of 15s: 15reps (not to failure) +5+5+5

    Last session of 15s: 15reps (to failure or close to) +5+5+5

    So it wouldn't be myoreps per se around the start, but just clustering the reps a little closer (shorter rests) to get them a bit more effective so to speak.

    Or is this just making it harder than it needs to be, and to just focus on the main aim of load progression?

    I'm however now thinking maybe it's better to keep the 15s as 15 rep longer tension sets rather than doing little groups of reps...

    Just some ponderings, don't know whether any validity :)
  2. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    I personally wouldn't do myo reps during sub max sets, cannot see the benefits when you are nowhere near failure, cluster sets I feel would be beneficial if you are getting to 2 or 3 reps from failure
  3. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    I just treat myo-rep sets as "lots of work/stress/fatigue, little bit of time", so for me if I don't see myself developing that volume over the course of the next couple workouts or using as a final push within a block then I wouldn't see it as specifically beneficial unless you need to free up more time, in which case clustering may be similarly effective. Then again maybe I'm not using it right.
  4. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    I used to think that but I did too many exercises per body part per workout and ended up burning out quite quickly, currently just doing one exercise per body part, with the activation set followed by 5 myo rep sets twice per week (basically doing Pull, Legs, Push, Pull, Legs, Push, Day off somewhere during the week) and this seems to suit me quite well at the moment, with all that is going on in my life at the moment 20-25 minutes per day is all I can give.
  5. Blade

    Blade Super Moderator Staff Member

    As mentioned in the other thread, I actually tend to think a rest-pause/Myo-reps approach should be used exclusively (depending on the exercise, of course) for the 15s and 10s, as it checks all the boxes for muscle growth at those loads by inducing more metabolic stress, higher average MU recruitment and perturbation of the internal environment of the cell, satellite cell activity and potentially ribosome biogenesis. I will use dropsets for the first week or two of 5s, and finish off with a couple of weeks of regular 5s (and even some cluster training) with 2-4min rest periods to "deload" from the metabolic stress component.
  6. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    I completely agree with Blade except I use ranges of 20, 15 and 10 as heavy weights are more likely to cause injury at my age.
  7. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Awesome, appreciate the feedback guys.

    Yeah I guess I just meant in terms of utilising rest-pause earlier on and then obviously as you come closer to your RM you'd essentially be doing myoreps. Then the reps drop and you're back doing rest-pause or clustering. It's moreso clustering, but you're at a slightly higher activation than you'd be at for normal sets, due to shorter rests.

    I guess this is only in considering a 3x week frequency. So that you ramp up the intensity gradually (by that I mean coming closer to failure) so you're not going too close to failure too much of the time. Just thinking it may be a way of keeping the sets more stimulating than standard sets, but not so draining as intensity increases over time then drops again etc...

    Just random thoughts really, myoreps may just well be a better solution, I just need to learn how to implement them without smashing myself ;D
  8. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Am starting a HST cycle (has been a little while doing a pure HST cycle!) and decided to try this little thought/training experiment that this thread was based on.

    Basically, instead of straight sets, at the start of the reprange block it's a bit more of a rest-pause/cluster, then last two sessions are proper myoreps.

    So it will still sort of be 2 sets in 15s, 3 sets in 10s, or moreso same total volume. But the main thing is that the rest-pause clusters are NOT myoreps, and I won't push too hard on them, staying clear away from failure, but still aiming at getting up a good burn/pump.

    Start of 15s= Set normal, 4-5 breaths rest, rest-pause the remaining reps.

    Start of 10s= Set 1 normal, 60-90s rest, set 2 normal, 4-5 breaths, rest pause the remaining reps.

    And I'm aiming for a range rather than a set 30 reps, just depending on how I'm feeling and performing on the day. Maybe in 15s: 30-45, 10s: 20-35, 5s: 10-20.

    And the last two sessions of the 15s and 10s block will be proper myoreps, with slightly shorter ROM and shorter rests (3 breaths).

    Fun! See how we go!
  9. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    First week went well! I won't log everything I do but I may log how the cycle goes sporadically.

    Wasn't too taxing the rest-pause style, I made sure to not push too hard, yet still keep it challenging and provide a nice metabolic internal environment.

    Doing an ABA cycle and including some new exercises as well, for those I'm just doing a steady progression for them as I'm still learning the technique and don't know my RMs for them.

    And just for fun a dropset protocol on a tricep iso exercise, trying to bump those up haha
  10. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    SI joint pain really, really, really bad... has been excruciating. Absolutely no idea how it came about, and I can't figure this one out.

    Had some bowen therapy on it which felt like it made it worse, but has actually been alot better today. May just need time to adjust and balance out. Could only do minimal and altered training, see how we go...
  11. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Saw an osteopath and yep it's definitely the SI joint... will hopefully take 2-4 sessions to resolve. Asked about training and she said best to lay off weights for a week to give my back the best chance of a speedy recovery, then once I can move freely and have minimal pain, re introduce the weights but at 50% of my normal weight for a week and then increase back up.

    So a semi-forced SD... *ugh*.... and I literally only just finished the 15s!

    What does everyone think, when I start back up just start the whole cycle from the start, or pick up from second week of 15s or so... ?
  12. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Depends on the length of your layoff but I would play it safe and start at the first week of 15's with a reduction in weight used. A second injury will be even worse than what you are experiencing now. You cannot lift if you are injured.
  13. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Yeah true, always good to start back conservatively and can always work my way back up. So bummed as I only just started this cycle and haven't done a HST cycle in awhile...

    As absolutely keen as I am in wanting jump back in where I left off hehe.. She did say to start back in a weeks time with 50% of the weights I was using. But that being said it wasn't super heavy I was going, only just reached the end of the 15s. Nevertheless, I don't want to reinjure under any cost, has been brutal!

    I'll treat/lift lightly. Cheers O&G :)
  14. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    SI joint was getting heaps better, osteo gave me the go ahead to train again! I just started the cycle from the very start again, some lifts the same weights as before, and some reduced as they involved the lower back more. Lifts like box squats and RDLs using a much slower progression than other lifts.

    Just finished 15s last week, went really really well! My workouts were getting to about 1+1/2 hours round the end of the 15s, so might have to cut something... late 10s and 5s will be way too long if I don't haha. Not sure how to go about that... but will see when the time comes.
  15. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Just finished the 10s! Went really well, progressing with weights as planned with most lifts, all except box squats and RDLs which I'm doing a slower dual progression sorta thing. Do a certain weight for 2 sets, next session same weight but 3 sets, then up the weight and back down to 2 sets, and repeat.

    SI joint is still painful, it's reverted a bit, but seem to feel okay with these lifts. Just keeping up with massage and stretching.

    BB Rows and WG Rows were hard on the lower back.. tried resting the forehead on my bench end to take the pressure off but I could still feel it.. even though I'm moving into the 5s I'm hoping the lower tension-time in the sets will be easier to tolerate.

    I've tried a few options of laying on the bench prone and doing rows like that but it's a different sort of adjustable bench and things are just in the way.

    May not be able to extend the 5s phase for too long but see how we go...
  16. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    SI joint has been really good and things feel like they're finally healing up!

    Was at the very tail end of the 5s and all was going well, then fell really unwell (chest infection or something) and haven't trained for a week now. Unsure whether to just call the cycle and do an unplanned SD, or pick it up in the 5s and keep going once I get better (which I'm no way near better)
  17. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    It's frustrating but I would start over again. After two or so weeks off due to an unrelated illness, you cannot just pick up where you were with the 5's without risking additional injury to your SI.
  18. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Ah yeah, I'm not so much concerned about the SI joint, as that was never really overly affected with training (I wasn't doing the 5s with leg exercises), but whether it's really worth going back to 5s after the break, as I've gotten a semi-SD anyway from the layoff.

    But you know me getting sick may have even been a sign that I was pushing to my limits and technically maybe at the end of the cycle anyway haha.
  19. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Do not fool around with SI injuries. I had rotator cuff and SI surgery and it was a full year to get back to 100% recovery. Exercising incorrectly with even a simple SI injury can lead to rotator cuff tears and muscle/bone separation which needs to be grafted back.
  20. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    Ah yep for sure will take that on board. Oh and just to clear it up by SI I mean sacroiliac joint (lowerback/hip), not shoulder impingement hehe. But will still keep it in mind, cheers mate :)

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