Rethinking Hst

HST_Rihad said:
And considering the potentially permanent muscle memory effect after AAS withdrawal... there's no way back from the Dark Side :D
http://www.mn.uio.no/ibv/english/re...ig-dopingbruk-kan-ha-permanente-effekter.html
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Interesting.

By the way...255lbs at 6' and 8%BF? This guy used to be a monster, even on AAS.

Despite that, I found his articles interesting, maybe the myo-reps being the most one. I tried it on the last three sessions and as Mick said it has potential to burn out quickly, so I worked to stay under failure all the time. I'll probably test myo-reps until the end of my current HST cycle to see what happens but if things get bad maybe I'll have to drop it.
 
HST_Rihad said:
Keep in mind that Blade has been known for using testosterone skin gel, so his training advice may not be appropriate for naturally training individuals.
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HST_Rihad said:
And considering the potentially permanent muscle memory effect after AAS withdrawal... there's no way back from the Dark Side :D
http://www.mn.uio.no/ibv/english/re...ig-dopingbruk-kan-ha-permanente-effekter.html
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And none of which has jack to do with his training advice. Are all the hundreds of clients he trained on AAS? Does all the research he gets his ideas from use AAS subjects? It's just a stupid ad hominem argument.
 
FistOfFury said:
And none of which has jack to do with his training advice. Are all the hundreds of clients he trained on AAS? Does all the research he gets his ideas from use AAS subjects? It's just a stupid ad hominem argument.
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Indeed.

I thought the exact same way, however I believe Rihad was right when said "may not be".

Obviously his advices were tested on himself and his clients, so we have a mix of assisted and natural trainers.

In other words, take his (good) advices with a grain of salt.
 
For instance I'm yet to see the purported benefits of myo-reps. O&G has been a happy user since long, but AFAIK he's on HRT due to age, peculiar principles or whatever, and therefore is able to reap their full benefit. It doesn't matter if you think you simply use HRT to normalize your T levels, there's a difference between the natural hormonal spikes and the increased baseline level that exogenous hormones provide.
 
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I believe myo-reps are useful to raise effectiveness of a given load. I found it to be a good tool for those earlier weeks on HST, for instance, but maybe not recommended to the entire cycle.

It's also fun and a good cardio work. [emoji12]
 
leonardopm said:
I believe myo-reps are useful to raise effectiveness of a given load. I found it to be a good tool for those earlier weeks on HST, for instance, but maybe not recommended to the entire cycle.
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Agreed myo-reps are a great tool but probably best not doing them in the 5s
 
HST_Rihad said:
For instance I'm yet to see the purported benefits of myo-reps. O&G has been a happy user since long, but AFAIK he's on HRT due to age, peculiar principles or whatever, and therefore is able to reap their full benefit. It doesn't matter if you think you simply use HRT to normalize your T levels, there's a difference between the natural hormonal spikes and the increased baseline level that exogenous hormones provide.
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Have you done myo-rep training for a decent period of time? I personally had very good gains using myo-reps without any assistance.
 
mickc1965 said:
Have you done myo-rep training for a decent period of time? I personally had very good gains using myo-reps without any assistance.
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Yes, albeit doing incline push-ups at home (with my feet on the bed). Sets of 15+3+3+2+2 or the like every 5 minutes. Later on I wrapped some rubberbanditz bands around my back to mimick weight increases. With some myo-reps bis/deltoid work using the bands. I'm not sure what you mean by gains, but that was pretty much it, work for the sake of the work. I don't really care if can eventually do more of this, it's muscle size (and low body fat) I'm after. 100% naturally, of course.
 
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In terms of gains I am referring to hypertrophy, was asked what I was taking so clearly growth was noticeable
 
HST_Rihad said:
Doing good! Today was my 8-rep workout. Fatigue level was pretty low. Nothing much to say for now. I'll have to run a cycle or two of these first. The progress might be a bit confounded by the fact that I have started a slow cut to drop 3-4 pounds. Then I'll start a long lasting body recomposition where lack of progress will dictate the need to increase the food intake. The end goal is of course to reach my genetic muscular potential at 4-6% bf :)
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Finished my second 2-week long cycle today. The results are simply whatever I was aiming for before the cycle began.
My caloric deficit has been very small, went from 66.3->65.3kg in 4 weeks.
And here are some PRs in two weeks:
Dips: BW+32.5x5+5negs (was 30x5+5negs)
Deads: 140x5 (was 137x5)
Standing BB press: 52.5x5 (was 52.5x4)
All loads are in kilos.

Most other maxes were picked more conservatively while getting used to the new setup.
Here's what I will be doing for the next 2 weeks (sorry for the poor formatting). The 10-9-8-7-6-5rep progression (ranging from 75-100% of 5RM in 5% increments) proved to be worthwhile.
It's much more potent than the simple 5-5-5-5-5-5, probably due to being closer to failure, but still not quite reaching it (except for the final workout). By doing say 75% @10 reps you get the most out of the given load without hitting failure, and at the same time prepare yourself for the upcoming 80% @9 reps.

Squats 65x10 72x9 80x8 87x7 95x6 102x5
Bench (incline) 57x10 60x9 65x8 67x7 72x6 77x5
Leg curls 7x11 8x10 9x9 10x8 11x7 12x5
Pulldowns 52x10 56x9 59x8 62x7 0x6 pullups 5x5 pullups
Dips 10x10 15x9+1N 20x8+2N 25x7+3N 30x6+4N 35x5+5N
1-arm bent-over DB rows 32.5x10 35x9 37.5x8 40x7 42.5x6 45x5
Deadlift 95x10 105x9 115x8 122x7 132x6 142x5
Bis 37x10 40x9 42x8 45x7 47x6 50x5
Calves 36x10N 42x9N 50x8N 56x7N 64x6N 72x5N
Military press 40x10 42x9 45x8 47x7 50x6 55x5
Hyperextensions 37.5x15 42.5x14 47.5x13 52.5x12 57.5x11 65x10
Seated Smith press 42x10 45x9 47x8 50x7 52x6 57x5
Rear Delts 12.5x10 13.5x9 15x8 16x7 17.5x6 18.5x5
Tricep extensions 7x12 8x11 9x10 10x9 11x8 12x6p
Lateral raises 45° above 8.5x10 10x9 11x8 12.5x7 13.5x6 15x5
 
HST_Rihad said:
Here's what I will be doing for the next 2 weeks (sorry for the poor formatting). The 10-9-8-7-6-5rep progression (ranging from 75-100% of 5RM in 5% increments) proved to be worthwhile.
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Why not get closer to failure for each set at say RPE of 8 going for 15 reps @ 75% of 5rm, 12 reps @ 80%, 10 reps @ 85%, 8 reps @ 90%, 6 reps @ 95% and 5 @ 100%? You would still be about 2/3 reps from failure in the first week.
 
mickc1965 said:
Why not get closer to failure for each set at say RPE of 8 going for 15 reps @ 75% of 5rm, 12 reps @ 80%, 10 reps @ 85%, 8 reps @ 90%, 6 reps @ 95% and 5 @ 100%? You would still be about 2/3 reps from failure in the first week.
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You see, this didn't turn out to be as simple as on paper. First, the target load is my intended new 5RM, that I could probably only do for 3-4 reps when starting the cycle. Second, after a rough 5's workout on Friday I'm still only partly recovered on Monday, working close to failure, in most movements there's only 1 rep being left in the tank. When getting used to lower reps in the set the body adapts to the TUL it has experienced recently. All in all, neither workout is easy, just what you were attempting to fix. The second week (normally reps 7-6-5) feels both easier and harder than the first week (reps 10-9-8). Higher metabolic demands make up for the reduced load, and higher load makes up for the reduced TUT.
 
Interesting thread. It's obvious that natural lifters can best stimulate hypertrophy using a combination of different pathways, both heavy weight / low rep and lighter weight / higher rep. I believe the basic principles of HST are generally correct, high frequency full body workouts (3x week) and limited sets (6-12 per muscle group per week) to prevent CNS fatigue. The strategic deconditioning, cycling, and limited progression don't sit well with me for many of the reasons discussed in this thread. There must always be a constant progression of total poundage. However contrary to what Rihad does, an increase of 2.5kg is far too big of a jump. That being said HST overcomplicates and delays the stimulation of different pathways which is vital for naturals. I will be replacing 15/10/5/Neg with 12/6 alternating light and heavy weeks. A change of hypertrophic pathway every week. For the 12 and 6 rep ranges I'll calculate the weight to use so the total poundage per set never drops, ensuring parity and constant progression. Advanced lifters should consider 4x or even 5x a week. With small loads, daily AM/PM lifting too. Frequency is the key, the body is designed to ultimately adapt. Some of the biggest natural men with permanent gains are not hobbyist bodybuilders but are infact labourers in various industries who lift heavy weights and perform strenuous activity as part of their jobs all day long - they have no choice and the body adapts.
 
Relying on SD to compensate for the need to increase the load & volume is nothing more than wishful thinking. When using previous loads you just have to increase the volume a bit for the work to be meaningful and effective for your current adaptation level. When you SD, you lose some of the muscle you've gained, so it may seem like previous loads allow you to grow, when in reality all they do is recover the muscle you lost in the first place. There's no such thing as a free ride to your natural genetic potential. You have to fight your way through to reach it. That means more load or more volume with the same load, whichever gets you stronger.
 
Increased volume, frequency and weight are all necessary. I agree that SD is counterproductive and will keep you going in circles. Try lifting 6 days a week, increasing sets and weight as strength permits. Ignore soreness and gradually train your CNS to accept more work. I find it interesting that the HST book even admits the science indicates a muscle can be stimulated to grow constantly, i.e. no rest from load. Many anecdotal reports and testimonies from people who've worked out the same body part daily also attest to adaptation and growth that lasts for years. I'm not sure why Bryan doesn't make the connection but it's the obvious way to go. SD is the single biggest error in his thinking.
 
gregoryflinksi said:
I agree that SD is counterproductive and will keep you going in circles
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Do you really believe that 9 days of no training after every 6 - 8 weeks (or more) of training will stop you from getting stronger in your following cycle, I have increased loads from one cycle to the next (except bench press) in every cycle except when in calorie deficit.
 
It's not intuitively beneficial to break up ones training. In the absence of stimulus the gains will begin to atrophy. Bryan even admits as much, which is precisely why he designed HST around frequency. Time off to heal 100% may be useful for you in your particular situation. I tried it before and it never helped me. It doesn't appear to be helping Rihad either. The reasoning behind it in the book is wrong, muscles need progressing stimulus, not taking away stimulus. It's the wrong way to sensitize muscles, which can be done by increasing volume, frequency and weight.
 
So when strength gains stall and you've already increased volume as far as you can, while lifting every single day, what exactly do you suggest a lifter do? Time off or deloads are the only option at that point. You cannot infinitely increase load or volume and frequency is clearly pretty limited by the fact that time is not infinite.
 
Totentanz said:
So when strength gains stall and you've already increased volume as far as you can, while lifting every single day, what exactly do you suggest a lifter do? Time off or deloads are the only option at that point. You cannot infinitely increase load or volume and frequency is clearly pretty limited by the fact that time is not infinite.
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I think the argument hinges on SD vs DL; specifically being which is more optimal. I tend to disagree that the standard cookie-cutter approach to DL'ing is ideal. I'm also less convinced than I used to be that SD is optimal. Having said that, 9 days off is going to do sweet f**k all to impede your progress and gains over time.
 
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