Rethinking Hst

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by HST_Rihad, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    One can try high volume training as that guy I talked about in the first post. There volume, then load is the principal driver of progress, not load, then volume, as in HST.

    Cycling previous loads in HST is a sure way of staying the same. There you need to increase the load as your strength progresses, and grow using those loads only. Or you can keep the loads the same as your strength progresses and increase the volume instead. Use shorter rest periods. This is the path chosen by that guy. It appears that a given 10-12RM load (done in multiple sets of 8-10) is effective for much longer than the research that Bryan based his ideas on concluded. How about not going beyond 100 kg in deads/squats in high volume training, sometimes doing 120x4x2, all to achieve a staggering 185 kg PL-clean DL at 70 kg BW? So muscle/strength can be grown without increasing loads beyond a certain point. Lifetime naturally.

    Another option is to pick the opposite extreme, and this is the way I'm becoming fond of: lower volume. Meaning only one quality set per exercise (not necessarily 1 set per MG) done 3 times per week. Here load progression plays a critical role. You de-load to about 50% of the loads in 5RM (here SD isn't all that bad since you don't expect to grow using those loads anyway), and start doing nice & slow 10-rep sets with small increments, switching to 5's as you hit failure. One set there, too. You will lose some of the muscle with those submaximal loads for sure, but it will quickly recover. Nice and slow to give time for CNS & tendons to recover. Work the set nice and slow, concentrating on the form and stop when the speed of ascend starts slowing down. The reason for slowing down the speed is to increase the TUT and feel the muscle really worked up by the 10th rep, even if the load is far from maximal. Low set volume has the effect of allowing you to grow much stronger without hindering your ability to recover between sessions. And personally, one quality set is fun. I hate doing several suboptimal work sets per exercise. And in the long term, once a person is as strong as 185 kg DL at 70kg BW, and 60kg 95% clean bicep curling single, I bet he will look as developed as that guy irrespective of the volume used to get there.
     
  2. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member


    Please tell me which HST principle makes that ludicrous statement.

    All your other high/low volume programs would have the same effect if you kept the weight the same.

    What does misinterpreting HST and then suggesting other methods gain you?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2014
  3. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Apparently keeping his squatting/DL loads at 100 kilos for higher volume and 120 kg for lower volume strength gains didn't prevent that guy from lifting 185 kg. What he did was increase work volume instead, with an obscene amount of work per bout.
     
  4. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Progressive volume in place of progressive load. That would probably work but would be very inefficient, in my opinion. Hey, if it works for him, more power to him.
     
  5. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    The research Bryan based his work on claimed that no matter the volume used, RBE would halt gains with a given load used for longer than a few weeks. This is true for lower loads, but doesn't look like RBE ever really tackles high enough loads.
     
  6. krysix

    krysix New Member

    I'm not an expert but I read somewhere that hypertrophy was the result of protein synthesis minus muscle breakdown and that through RBE the muscles avoided muscle breakdown. It's of course very simplified but it's interesting cause RBE would be positive for hypertrophy. Don't know if it's true, just saying.
     
  7. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    krysix, if we equate RBE with plateau (adaptation to withstand further stimulus), what you said sounds very unlikely.
     
  8. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

  9. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    Rihad, we have discussed this topic in a PM recently. If you have not tried what I shared with you yet you are just wasting time. A few others here have blown off the same information at their own loss. For the love of God, just try it for 6 weeks and see what happens. I'm pretty sure you will not be disappointed.
     
  10. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    BD, care to share for the rest of us?
     
  11. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    It actually works very well, and is my preferred method. Volume manipulation can be a very powerful growth stimulus...if done properly.
     
  12. adpowah

    adpowah Active Member

    I'd love to hear it too BD.
     
  13. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    It's actually a simple principle. This is an over simplification but basically over the course of three weeks you increase your volume to a point of acute over training and then on the fourth week you reduce the volume and begin to increase the load over the next three weeks. There is a bit more to it than that but that is basically how it works. If you want more detailed info send me a PM.
     
  14. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    Something that came to mind is a post Steve Jones made a few years ago. I don't remember what program he was doing but he commented how his squat strength skyrocketed due to the crazy volume that the program had him doing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2014
  15. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    No reason it should not work but I still see inefficiency. It may be worth it or not. I don't know. At what % do you keep the weight the first three weeks at what rep range?
     
  16. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    You vary your reps through the week and the emphasis is on the reps not the weight. You use whatever weight puts you at your target reps. The weight/load can actually end up going down on week 3 due to the increase in volume. But once you drop the reps/volume on week 4 you will see a huge increase in strength and growth. PM me your email and I will send you the info.

    Most people write this system off simply because they don't see the research backing it. I'll tell you straight up... They are missing out because it works, and works incredibly well.
     
  17. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Steve jones was doing was korte's 3x3 at one point, I'm pretty sure that's the one he says his squat went way up. I've done the program before.
     
  18. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    Yeah, that is what I was thinking of. For some reason I was thinking it was a higher volume routine. Although the first phase of that routine is pretty high volume of I remember correctly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  19. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    You're right, there's no science backing it up, that's why I'm not yet ready to try it out. It might be working despite the high volume. What is backed by science is 1 set per exercise with sufficient frequency, which I will be trying.
     
  20. johan.lundqvist

    johan.lundqvist New Member

    Bulldog: I would love to get more info. PM sent....
     

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