Rihad's log

[HST_Rihad]

Does your Monday include much physical labor or time at work, prior to your workout ... ?

There shouldn't be any drop-off; 48hrs is no different to 72 to 96, realistically.

Work isn't an issue, I work as a freelancer. I train at around 11-13:00, when the gym isn't as crowded (schoolboys still coming in flocks, hate them!). Frankly I didn't try 11 bricks as on Friday, I felt 10 bricks would still be heavy, and so they were. Moreover, I had just finished higher rep incline bench a 2-3 minutes prior to that. It may also be that I had worked tris extensions too extensively on Friday, 11x15, in a bit shortened ROM. I should probably still keep tris extensions higher rep to assist the heavier work on inclined bench.

 

[Totentanz]

If anything, you should feel stronger on Monday after the extra day off. How is the diet on the weekend? How are carbs on Sunday? Carbs the day prior to lifting can effect strength and energy levels.

 

[HST_Rihad]

As a source of carbs, I eat buckwheat, potatoes, rice, or pasta (less frequently) every day. As far as protein goes, I eat 2 boiled eggs in the morning, then a protein+carbs meal pre-workout, cottage cheese towards bed time as a source of slow proteins. I also eat a couple times more during the day. Getting lean red meats every day is fairly expensive (although I always grab 2 hamburgers at McDonalds post-workout), so I eat chicken breast almost every day, which is 2-3 times cheaper. I do include red meats on average 5-6 days a month on top of the hamburgers. Fish every 7-10 days or so. So to sum up: I regularly eat 2 eggs, chicken breast + buckwheat/rice/potatoes (mashed or boiled)/pasta, some bread, 250 ml milk, cottage cheese + some corn oil used to cook meats. I don't know how much that is in terms of calories, but 2 hamburgers equaling ~500 cals, I'd estimate around ~2300-2500 on w/o days, ~2000-2200 on days off. I eat oranges almost every day...

 

[Jester]

You're going to get sick of hearing this, but take the time to do the macros for your energy intake. It's worth the initial effort, and soon you'll find it takes no effort at all to do.

McD's burgers tend to 1:1 protein:fat, at least here in Australia, so I would definitely look there if you're looking to keep calories in a reasonable surplus and not overdoing it beyond what is necessary.

Personally I would bump the milk intake, I used to take about 2L per day, maybe 1.5-1.8 depending. I've cut back on that atm because its interfering w/my ulcerative colitis taking that much (recently), but I find it's an essential ingredient; calcium that gets absorbed (as opposed to tablets etc), protein - slow at that), decent carb content, no/low fat, hydrates along with water.

Just a thought.

Don't worry about needing too much red meat. It's yum, good for you and has the protein as well but if you can't afford it for now there's a hundred other ways to get protein.

 

[Totentanz]

Go to http://www.myfitnesspal.com/ - probably the easiest calorie tracking site ever. Way better than fitday. We can be friends on there if it would help your motivation. Skipping through the meadows while holding hands and all that. But anyway, it's much safer if you are sure of your calories, especially carbs and proteins. Carbs are very important for muscle growth and strength. I always make sure to eat a large carb meal for dinner the day prior to a workout. Pasta is an easy one for me, I just eat a huge heaping plate of pasta and I'm good to go. Rice is an easy one too but I don't care for it in large amounts personally. Tracking calories more closely will also help you somewhat minimize that fat gain that you dislike.

Any special reason why you are focusing on getting lean red meats? Why not fattier cuts of meat? It's cheaper and tastes better.

 

[HST_Rihad]

@AlexAustralia, I'd be glad to drink more milk, but I have this lactose intolerance if I drink too much, you know what I mean, many people have it...

Totentanz, thanks for sharing, I've just registered, although there was no Azerbaijan, so had to pick Russia LOL. Based on my data, here's what they told me:

Your Suggested Fitness and Nutrition Goals

Congratulations! Your personalized diet and fitness profile is now complete. Based on your answers, here are your suggested nutrition and fitness goals.
[TABLE="class: table0 suggested-goals"]
[TR]
[TD="class: head_first"]Nutritional goals[/TD]
[TD]Target[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: first"]
[TD]Net Calories Consumed* / Day[/TD]
[TD]1,640 Calories / Day[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: first"]Carbs / Day[/TD]
[TD]226 g[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: first"]Fat / Day[/TD]
[TD]55 g[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: first"]Protein / Day[/TD]
[TD]62 g[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
*Net calories consumed = total calories consumed - exercise calories burned. So the more you exercise, the more you can eat!
[TABLE="class: table0 suggested-goals"]
[TR]
[TD="class: head_first"]Fitness goals[/TD]
[TD]Target[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: first"]
[TD]Calories Burned / Week[/TD]
[TD]1,750 Calories / Week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: first"]Workouts / Weekends[/TD]
[TD]3 workouts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: first"]Minutes / Workout[/TD]
[TD]90 minutes[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
If you follow this plan...
Your projected weight loss is: 1.0 lbs/week
You should lose 5.0 lbs. by April 2

The thing is, I don't want to lose weight just yet, I want to get more muscle

You're probably right in that fatty and bony meats are less expensive, but AFAIK that kind of saturated fat is considered bad and should be avoided.

If it isn't too much to ask, could you guys write up your sample recent diet on days with workout & on off days? Like what, how much etc. A "plate full of pasta" is as good a description as any Or please point me to a topic if it's already been discussed.

 

[Totentanz]

There is a way to force it to set your goal to be weight gain, I don't remember where it is but I will look and see. It's weight gain estimations are kind of low, I think. It claims I should be gaining close to 2 pounds a week on 3500 calories a day which is laughable.
I think the dangers of saturated fats are exaggerated. Sure, if you are sedentary then it's horrible but for active people the risk is nowhere near as bad. Aside from the fact that cholesterol level has a pretty huge genetic component to it... I don't think it would be that big of a risk to have some fatty meat once in a while. I have it all the time and my lipid profile, etc is all great.

Here is an example diet for one of my workout days:

breakfast - 2 cups Oatmeal with 1 cup of milk for breakfast, 1 cup of greek yogurt

preworkout - 1 cup of fat free instant powdered milk plus 1 scoop of whey isolate mixed with water

intraworkout - 1.5 scoops of gatorade powder in ice water

postworkout - 1 cup of fat free instant powdered milk plus 2 scoops of whey isolate mixed with 1 cup of milk and .5 cup of ice water

lunch - 10 oz steak or two 1/4 lb burgers, or one or two chicken breasts, baked potato with whatever on it, brocolli, 2 cups of milk

snack - entire can of tuna with two pieces of bread, some miracle whip or mayo on it, 2 cups of milk, 1 cup of greek yogurt, maybe an apple or two

snack - couple bottles of soda

Dinner - meat - either beef (I eat a wide variety) or a couple chicken breasts, veggies of some sort, more milk

dessert - some peanut butter out of the jar or if I'm craving something really sweet, a few bowls of cereal with milk

I might eat other stuff here and there too. After workouts, I'm usually eating the entire rest of the day. Sometimes if it is a Sunday and I don't feel like cooking, we will order pizza, two for the kids and the wife to eat and one for me to eat, I will typically get a medium or a large supreme pizza and eat the entire thing with a few glasses of milk. I probably drink close to a gallon of milk a day on workout days. If you want, I can write up an idea of what I have on nonworkout days too. Not sure if this helps, since I drink so much milk and you mentioned that milk is not something you can have a lot of.

 

[Jester]

Fatty meat and animal fats worked 'ok' for the first 40,000yrs of humanity ... it's probably reasonable to say they work 'ok' now too, just eat in moderation like anything else.

 

[HST_Rihad]

Thanks for the write-up. Yeah, I'm mostly sedentary type, so I better try to avoid those fats. Our ancestors were a different story, I wonder how much we've mutated since then in the bad way?

Guys, which type of milk do you drink? They've got here fat free milk 0.1%, low fat 1.5%, whole milk 3.5%. Which should I choose if my goal is to get bigger, and I don't want much of "bad" fat in? For now I almost always pick either fat free or low fat.

p.s.: today I'm gonna switch to 2 sets of 6 in my foray into optimizing load/volume. Nothing wrong with 3 sets of 5's, it's just that doing heaviest absolute loads I'm capable of, and by that I mean lower rep leg presses, requires great effort. I can try to mitigate that by upping rep ranges to 6, and/or by spending at least 2 workouts with a given load. Some believe that squats/leg press/deads being heaviest one can lift, may help their results in other seemingly unrelated exercises, like bench press, because we all have one CNS and it doesn't matter much how we train it. Other than that I don't really care what my legs look like

 

[HST_Rihad]

Today I attempted to do 6 reps, 2 sets in most exercises.

Leg press 252 kg (555 lb) x6x2 *
Incline bench 77 kg (170 lb) x6,4 **
Leg curls 13 bricks x5,5 (New load)
Seated rows 78 kg (172 lb) x6,5+1N
Lying 1-arm rear delts 10 kg (22 lb) x 5,4
BB shrugs 100 kg (220 lb) x 6x2
BB curls 45 kg (99 lb) x4+1N, 50 kg (110 lb) x5N ***
Triceps block extensions 10 bricks x 15
Calves BW+89 kg (1196 lb) x 12x2
High reps: Incline bench 50 kg (110 lb) x 15

Notes:
* New load. Set two was like the hardest leg press I've ever done with decent ROM, RPE 10 definitely.
** Fewer total reps than previous w/o (77x5,5,3) but set one was at least RPE 9.5.
*** 50 kg was too much, I should have done 47 kg first. Lowering speed wasn't controlled at an acceptable level.

Next w/o I'll definitely keep leg press unchanged to consolidate any strength gains and give CNS a bit more opportunity to recover for more load. Overall feeling ok.

 

[HST_Rihad]

Finished my cycle today (I extended it by 2 more workouts: the first on Monday, and the last one today (Thursday)). Overall I'm very pleased, 3 sets of 5's and one metabolic set at the end of w/o have done a great job. Although I did only 2 sets on the last 2 weeks, when the load was heaviest. This is still enough work to grow muscle at my level.
I've added 2 mm to biceps (was 38 cm, now 38.2 @16 cm wrist), 4 mm to chest (was 109.1, now 109.5 (actually up to 110.5, but I chose to leave that for the future ). I lost around 6 mm on my thigh (60.5 vs. 61.1) - don't have a clue why. Maybe it's because of temporarily ditching squats and doing leg presses, albeit at maximum intensity.

Strength gains, for whomever cares:
All loads are in kg, sorry, U.S. should switch to metric system tooo ))
Previous maxes are shown in parentheses.

Leg press 265x5x2 kg (247x6x2 kg)
Incline bench 82x3,2 (82x5,3)
Leg curls 13 bricks x5x2 (12x6x2)
Seated rows 85x4,3 (79x5x2) alternated with Pull-ups BW+17.5x5x2 (BW+12.5x5x2)
Lying 1-arm rear delts 10x5x2 (same)
BB shrugs 115x5x3 (100x6x2) load went up after I started using a wrist strap for my left hand
BB curls 45x4+1N, 50x5N (same)
Triceps block extensions 13 bricks x 6 (12x5x2)
Calves BW+109 kg (BW+104 kg) x 12x2
High reps: Incline bench 60x12, Leg presses: 100x20, shrugs: 60x20, BB curls 20x18, seated rows: 42x15


As for 6 reps per set... it doesn't really matter if it's 5 or 6 when the load is below max. I'm mentally more used to doing 5 reps when at my maxes, so I'll be sticking to them for now.

 

[Jester]

Is your leg press plate-loaded or a cable-stack ... ?


I wouldn't necessarily read 'mm' lengths as growth per se; that can hydration, glycogen, slightly different tension on the tape etc. Not to discourage you, but just don't get upset if next time you measure they're smaller//different.

In addition, I would take your measurements on the last day of your SD, or at least 5-6 days in when all your glycogen levels (and accompanying water) will be restored. For myself, I can see (and feel) a significant difference for this in the difference between 12 and 24 hrs after a workout; the day after upper body, I look flat in the morning but at 9pm I look significantly fuller, let alone the next day before working out again.

What angle is your incline done at? I would have expected a load increase for a properly caloried cycle, rather than just a rep or two (which is not really an increase, could just be an 'on the day' thing). Otherwise it looks like some good strength gains were made, muscle to follow.

 

[HST_Rihad]

Is your leg press plate-loaded or a cable-stack ... ?

Plate loaded, inclined at 45 degrees or so.

I wouldn't necessarily read 'mm' lengths as growth per se; that can hydration, glycogen, slightly different tension on the tape etc. Not to discourage you, but just don't get upset if next time you measure they're smaller//different.

I've done this type of measurement for several years, so I know when the growth is real and stable.

In addition, I would take your measurements on the last day of your SD, or at least 5-6 days in when all your glycogen levels (and accompanying water) will be restored.

It would be unfair as I'm not normally on SD, so next day after workout seems like a reasonable compromise. Just checked - same stable measurements as yesterday.

What angle is your incline done at? I would have expected a load increase for a properly caloried cycle, rather than just a rep or two (which is not really an increase, could just be an 'on the day' thing).

At around 35-45 degrees, can't change that. The thing is, I decided to go up to 5 reps in a set before adding more load. The fact that I first was doing 3 sets and then changed my mind to 2 didn't leave me much w/os left to increase, because 3x5RM was underestimated (77 wasn't my true 5RM). Here are my w/os from the usual 3x5RM load (last 5's w/o) (the higher reps were done at the end of w/o):

75x5,5,5 + 50x15 77x5,5,3 + 50x15 77x6,4 + 50х15 80x5,3 + 60x10 80x5,4 + 60x4 82x4,3 + 60x10 82x4,3 + 55х11 82x5,3 + 60x12 82x5,3 + 60x12

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I've added almost 1.4 cm to my chest thanks to this and pull-ups. but only counted it as 0.4 for reasons of sanity
This is what matters to me, not load increase. I've also added 2 mm to biceps (thanks to curls+ bench+tri ext) although no load in mentioned exercises went up from previous cycle.

Otherwise it looks like some good strength gains were made, muscle to follow.

Yup, thanks, we'll see

 

[Jester]

2mm certainly doesn't qualify as statistically significant. That isn't to say you did, or did not have growth, just that you shouldn't take 2mm as authoritative.

It would be unfair as I'm not normally on SD, so next day after workout seems like a reasonable compromise.

There isn't "unfair" and "fair". You should take the measurement (all of them) when your glycogen and hydration levels are properly repleted. Same principle as jump on the scales after going to the toilet, before eating etc. It's just the correct way to do it.

Furthermore, you should definitely be doing either SD or significant de-loading.




And lastly ... to repeat, strength & size go hand in hand. At least you kept your volume under control in the end.

 

[HST_Rihad]

2mm certainly doesn't qualify as statistically significant. That isn't to say you did, or did not have growth, just that you shouldn't take 2mm as authoritative.

There's a huuuge and measurable difference between 38.0 and 38.2 ) I'm so proud of it ))

There isn't "unfair" and "fair". You should take the measurement (all of them) when your glycogen and hydration levels are properly repleted. Same principle as jump on the scales after going to the toilet, before eating etc. It's just the correct way to do it.

Ok, this is when I'm doing them anyway - next morning after w/o (after having eaten carbs etc the day before). This time was special as I've done some volume + metabolic changes, so I couldn't wait

Furthermore, you should definitely be doing either SD or significant de-loading.

SD, sure, otherwise it wouldn't be HST. I'm always doing it. Next w/o planned for March 25.

And lastly ... to repeat, strength & size go hand in hand. At least you kept your volume under control in the end.

They are related in the sense that as you get much stronger there's no way muscle can stay the same. but they're definitely not co-related. One can add size just fine with negligible strength gains. Other times even quite significant strength gains don't get you a gram of more muscle size (see my leg press 247 - 265)

 

[HST_Rihad]

2013-03-15 (80 kg)

2012-07-29 (69 kg)

I know, I'm fat today, but that will hopefully stabilize after some time of restraining the eating window as per LeanGains.

 

[Jester]

They are certainly co-related. Your contention is biased, by both your own experience (leg press) and what you think HST represents.

You won't put on statistically significant muscle mass without a corresponding strength gain, and vice versa. The problem with your understanding is that you think both will arrive simultaneously. You're also mistaking optimisation of conscious CNS use with 'size-less' strength gains.

Also, don't diet during your SD. Satelite cells will be active for another 9 days yet. If you're planning on cutting, start when your training starts.

 

[Jester]

Also, torso and quads coming along nicely.

 

[HST_Rihad]

You won't put on statistically significant muscle mass without a corresponding strength gain, and vice versa. The problem with your understanding is that you think both will arrive simultaneously.

Not quite. My way of thinking (I'm not claiming it is correct) is that one doesn't have to reach his genetic strength potential to reach his genetic limit in muscle size. And vice versa, one doesn't have to be huge to be very strong, otherwise there would never be PL contestants weighing 60 kg and benching more than more muscular guys.

Also, don't diet during your SD. Satelite cells will be active for another 9 days yet. If you're planning on cutting, start when your training starts.

Yeah, I've read about that. Since muscle doesn't experience overload, protein synthesis remains at its baseline level temporarily, so it's very important to ensure enough food & protein is eaten to cease or at least slow down the rate of muscular breakdown for body's AA needs.

 

[HST_Rihad]

Also, torso and quads coming along nicely.

Thanks, we'll see if LG does something about my fat levels after a month or two, although I won't be deliberately cutting for now. Just whatever I feel like eating 3 times a day and not feel hungry.