Rippetoe Squats

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(mikeynov @ May 22 2007,02:47)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Bulldog @ May 20 2007,21:09)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad, Mark recommends you set the bar just below the spine of the scapula and across your rear delts, not the up on the traps.  This position should give you better leverage because the distance from hips to bar is shorter.  Which in turn should require less forward lean to go deep.</div>
Not to be picky, but a low bar rack will necessitate MORE forward lean versus a higher on the traps rack.  It's a center of gravity thing, the same reason why people are, by necessity, more upright in a front versus a back squat.

Bar on the traps = more angle at the knee, less at the hip.  Bar on the posterior delts = more angle at the hips, less at the knee.</div>
As usual you are right mikeynov. Thanks for correcting me.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not to be picky, but a low bar rack will necessitate MORE forward lean versus a higher on the traps rack. It's a center of gravity thing, the same reason why people are, by necessity, more upright in a front versus a back squat.</div>

That explains why I went onto my toes with the bar lower. I'll have to work on my foot (ankle?) flexibility I guess, to get the bar working lower. And these old joints will definitely resist efforts of this nature.
 
Hmmm....even though there may be more forward lean of the back with a low bar placement I tend to catch myself on my toes more often with the high &quot;on the traps&quot; bar placement. Which is where I usually have to place it because of my poor shoulder flexability. Probably due to the fact that I have only been doing full ATG squats for a few months and am still working on my form. But I do feel much more in balance when the bar is lower.
 
thats true...higher bar=more knee flexion, lower bar=more hip flexion as Mikeynov pointed out. More knee flexion=coming up on toes....which is exactly why olympic lifters wear a raised heel shoe.
Powerlifters typically use a wide stance, low bar placement and push out against the heels.
For bodybuilding purposes high-bar, medium stance olympic squats hit the quadriceps alot more than PL squats.
 
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(quadancer @ May 22 2007,16:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not to be picky, but a low bar rack will necessitate MORE forward lean versus a higher on the traps rack. It's a center of gravity thing, the same reason why people are, by necessity, more upright in a front versus a back squat.</div>

That explains why I went onto my toes with the bar lower. I'll have to work on my foot (ankle?) flexibility I guess, to get the bar working lower. And these old joints will definitely resist efforts of this nature.</div>
I think the ability to squat deep is more a result of hip/ham/back flexibility.

Check out this thread. I stumbled on it one day, and found the posts and pics by Lincoln Brigham very interesting.
 
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(scientific muscle @ May 22 2007,23:11)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">thats true...higher bar=more knee flexion, lower bar=more hip flexion as Mikeynov pointed out. More knee flexion=coming up on toes....which is exactly why olympic lifters wear a raised heel shoe.
Powerlifters typically use a wide stance, low bar placement and push out against the heels.
For bodybuilding purposes high-bar, medium stance olympic squats hit the quadriceps alot more than PL squats.</div>
I know you're talking about how some oly lifters come up onto their toes when cleaning a weight, but the real reason they wear shoes is the more upright stance in general and how this relates to the mechanics of the oly lifts.

As an aside, contrary to westside4life wisdom, some people actually find it EASIER to 'push through the heels' with elevated heels. It's easier to tell, imho, if your weight is balanced properly when using heels, the difference in height between the front and rear of the shoes seems to give you a bit more proprioceptive feedback about how you are distributing your weight.

Whether flat shoes or oly shoes, your weight at the bottom of a squat should NOT be shifting towards the front of your feet.
 
Actually by &quot;coming up on toes&quot; I was simply referring to ankle bending. If you lack flexibility in the ankle, your heels will want to come off the floor in a full olympic high-bar squat. I agree that it is better to push with the heel, I should have been more clear.
 
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(scientific muscle @ May 28 2007,07:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Actually by &quot;coming up on toes&quot; I was simply referring to ankle bending.  If you lack flexibility in the ankle, your heels will want to come off the floor in a full olympic high-bar squat.  I agree that it is better to push with the heel, I should have been more clear.</div>
It does seem that reduced ankle flexibility is unlikely to be the probelm for most folks. It seems much more likely that hip flexibility is the issue in most cases.

This image posted on the Crossfit site is a good example of ankle flexibility. If you can do this with your ankle and you still can't squat without rounding your lowerback or coming up on your toes then you have a hip flexibility/tight hamstrings issue rather than an ankle flexibilty issue.

19129.jpg


Thanks for the link LNTx. Very helpful info. Just what Rippetoe says is usually the problem.
 
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