Simplify and Win!

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Fausto, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Guys

    I know this may sound ficticious and maybe even fastidious...but, I am going to emphasize it anyway!

    Specially for newbies, there seems to be a trend that the more variation of exercises you can fit into a workout the better!

    This is rather wastefull because:

    1 - It does not help the summation effect, which is one of the main principles of HST "hitting the muscle every 36 - 48 hours"

    2 - It wastes a lot of time - you should spend 45 - 60 minutes in the gym, have a intense workout at least from the 5's onward and get out.

    3 - Confusing the muscle to make it grow is not a HST theory or parctice and is a retarded way of viewing muscle physiology [​IMG]

    4 - when a workout is simple (consists of 5 to 6 exercises, maximum 8), it becomes highly productive if the proper HST principles are applied to it!

    5 - Use of isolation exercises without exception, should only be used when one has grown to a satisfactory size overall, they become wasteful otherwise (it is energy which could be used more productivelly).

    I'll rant some more when the thread gets bigger [​IMG]
  2. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Fausto

    I think it would be helpful if you posted your ideal workout following these principles including number of sets, frequency, reps, etc.
  3. style

    style New Member

    Heres mine,

    Bench
    Bent over row

    Squat
    SDLD

    Standing Military press-- push press later on in the cycle( credit liege)
    close grip underarm pullups

    Reps= 20

    Frequency= Mon Wed Fri although Id do 4x a week if I was a professional bber.

    Cycle length= 10 weeks. So say vanilla HST for 6 then Id stick with my 5RM for 4 weeks except Id cluster Max-Stim style.
  4. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    O & G

    I am not about to tell you how to set up your workout as this is more foir the newbies, but if you insist:

    Quads - Squats alternated with Deadlifts

    Chest - 15 degree Incline BB or DB bench press alternate with weighted Dips

    Back - Weighted Chins or pullups alternated with Rows (Pendlay)

    Shoulders - Military press or Arnold press (standing, push press from 5's onwards)

    Abs - Any variety (either with workout or on days off).

    Frequency - for begginers 3 x week, other variety's should only be used after at least 3 cycles (2x day 3x week / 4, 5 or 6 x week) there should always be at least one day rest.

    If you go higher than 3x week, reduce the number of exercises to the basics.

    Volume - again for begginers

    15 x 1 set / 10 x 2 sets / 5 x 3 sets, other variations can be used but this one seems to cause the most gains overall.
  5. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Alternating certain compound exercises is a really good way to ensure that you cover all the bases but still keep your workout to an hour or less.

    Squat/Dead
    Chin/Row
    Bench/Dip

    Other things that I have experimented with and now do as a matter of course are:

    SLDLs and squats up to end of 10s then alternate squats and normal deads during 5s. Actually, I squat on Mon and Fri and do deads only on Wednesdays. This allows for better recovery of my lowerback. For me, doing deads and squats on the same day during 5s compromises the loads I can lift for whichever exercise comes second and makes off-day activities unpleasant due to spinal erector soreness and fatigue.

    My w/os are very simple now:

    M/W/F
    Squat
    SLDL
    Bench/Dip
    Row/Chin
    Standing Shoulder Press

    During 5s and beyond this becomes:

    Squat/Deads (on Wednesday only)
    Bench/Dip
    Row/Chin
    Standing Shoulder Press (push presses during post-5s)

    Tues/Thurs
    Possibly some arm isos or ab work - time permitting.
  6. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    I agree with both programs although I tend to put in one set of iso's for bi's and tri's. I find it necessary to keep my arm size up after so many years of lifting. Maybe it's psychological. True beginners shouldn't bother with them as they can be counter-productive in the beginning because of their relative small size. Unless you are looking to compete, I don't think a person really has to go beyond a "beginners" workout, with some change in exercise selection once in a while as long as they continue the weight progression, have proper nutrition, limit stress and have the requisite testosterone production.

    After taking an extra week off, I rethought my next program and have decided to go back to my old standby, three times per week:

    Incline bench
    Dips
    Military press
    Behind back smith shrugs
    Close grip bench press

    Chins
    Seated rows
    barbell curls
    Squats
    Leg extensions

    The above is considered one workout but the space indicates a possible break for AM/PM or even Day1/Day2 depending on how lazy I feel. I usually don't split until weeks 3, 5 and 6. Hammies, forearms and calves are not specifically addressed as they have grown proportionately without any iso's.

    Weeks 1, 2 and 4 are 15, 10,and 5 reps, respectively. Weeks 3 and 5 are with 10 reps and 5 reps, respectively, with one added drop set of equal reps.  
    Week 6 is 5 reps with 2 added drop sets of 5 reps each. I do not feel the need to do drops with the iso's.

    The above has worked well for me so I decided not to re-invent the wheel, especially after a very long SD.
  7. Jazzer

    Jazzer New Member

    <div>
    (Fausto @ Sep. 11 2006,06:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">O &amp; G

    I am not about to tell you how to set up your workout as this is more foir the newbies, but if you insist:

    Quads - Squats alternated with Deadlifts

    Chest - 15 degree Incline BB or DB bench press alternate with weighted Dips

    Back - Weighted Chins or pullups alternated with Rows (Pendlay)

    Shoulders - Military press or Arnold press (standing, push press from 5's onwards)

    Abs - Any variety (either with workout or on days off).

    Frequency - for begginers 3 x week, other variety's should only be used after at least 3 cycles (2x day 3x week / 4, 5 or 6 x week) there should always be at least one day rest.

    If you go higher than 3x week, reduce the number of exercises to the basics.

    Volume - again for begginers

    15 x 1 set / 10 x 2 sets / 5 x 3 sets, other variations can be used but this one seems to cause the most gains overall.</div>
    Hehe, thats my workout right there. Starting the 20th I'm going to do my first clean bulk and up the frequency to every other day. I'll slowly ramp up my calories and see where things start to happen.
    I can't wait.
    J [​IMG]
  8. A question about the A/B splits: could you spend 4 weeks in the 10s and 5s, getting 6 workouts, and therefore 6 weight increments in each exercise?
  9. lcars

    lcars New Member

    <div>
    (Fausto @ Sep. 11 2006,04:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Guys

    I know this may sound ficticious and maybe even fastidious...but, I am going to emphasize it anyway!

    Specially for newbies, there seems to be a trend that the more variation of exercises you can fit into a workout the better!

    This is rather wastefull because:

    1 - It does not help the summation effect, which is one of the main principles of HST &quot;hitting the muscle every 36 - 48 hours&quot;

    2 - It wastes a lot of time - you should spend 45 - 60 minutes in the gym, have a intense workout at least from the 5's onward and get out.

    3 - Confusing the muscle to make it grow is not a HST theory or parctice and is a retarded way of viewing muscle physiology [​IMG]

    4 - when a workout is simple (consists of 5 to 6 exercises, maximum 8), it becomes highly productive if the proper HST principles are applied to it!

    5 - Use of isolation exercises without exception, should only be used when one has grown to a satisfactory size overall, they become wasteful otherwise (it is energy which could be used more productivelly).

    I'll rant some more when the thread gets bigger [​IMG]</div>
    yep that definitley applies to newbies,but wouldnt work for me.

    the only point i disagree with is that confusing a muscle doesnt produce any hypertrophy,although i dont change execises each week,i change some after each cycle and i change my workout altogether sometimes,trying something new can and does stimulate growth.the muscle gets used to one way of working and when you change your workout your body has to adapt again,which can induce growth adaptations especially if using progressive load.
  10. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    ET, sure you can do it that way. My personal preference would be to keep 2 weeks for the 10's and extend the 5's and possibly incorporate some drop sets in the later weeks. A general rule of thumb is that the higher the reps, the quicker RBE sets in so it is usually better in a muscle building phase to extend the 5's rather than the 10's or 15's.
  11. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    ET

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">A general rule of thumb is that the higher the reps, the quicker RBE sets in so it is usually better in a muscle building phase to extend the 5's rather than the 10's or 15's.</div>

    O &amp; G is right, you would benefit more from extending the 5's although some may argue that the hypertrophy phase is really the 10's, I am sure most of us have seen this proven otherwise. [​IMG]

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">yep that definitley applies to newbies,but wouldnt work for me.</div>

    Precisely why I started this thread, the newbies...well some of them at least are coming up with the most lengthy workouts, and these IMO are a waste of energy. [​IMG]

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only point i disagree with is that confusing a muscle doesnt produce any hypertrophy</div>

    Whilst it may very well be that an advanced lifter benefits from changing or altering a workout somewhat and score, it is still a retard statement to say you can confuse a muscle, if we put this more scientifically we would say challenging the muscle from a different angle.

    Again...the newbies will not benefit from &quot;confusing muscles&quot; specially if they are just starting Weight training...if not they should still take on 3 or so cycles of HST before attemptimp to tweak!
  12. 9to5lifter

    9to5lifter New Member

    The FAQ clearly states that you cannot &quot;confuse&quot; the muscle to induce hypertrophy. These are old bodybuilding myths. What happens when changing exercises is that sometimes you switch to an exercise that allows for greater load/stretch and/or requires different synergistic muscle activation patterns, thus putting (sometimes) new (greater) levels of tension on the target muscle, resulting in hypertrophy. But to say that randomly changing exercises is going to induce some hypertrophy is in error.

    Regards,
    Dimitris
  13. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Dimitris

    Thanks for the support, I am not quite ready to become a retard and start saying the old adage...my muscles have been confused...I'll be damned [​IMG]
  14. lcars

    lcars New Member

    <div>
    (Fausto @ Sep. 12 2006,02:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ET

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">A general rule of thumb is that the higher the reps, the quicker RBE sets in so it is usually better in a muscle building phase to extend the 5's rather than the 10's or 15's.</div>

    O &amp; G is right, you would benefit more from extending the 5's although some may argue that the hypertrophy phase is really the 10's, I am sure most of us have seen this proven otherwise. [​IMG]

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">yep that definitley applies to newbies,but wouldnt work for me.</div>

    Precisely why I started this thread, the newbies...well some of them at least are coming up with the most lengthy workouts, and these IMO are a waste of energy. [​IMG]

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only point i disagree with is that confusing a muscle doesnt produce any hypertrophy</div>

    Whilst it may very well be that an advanced lifter benefits from changing or altering a workout somewhat and score, it is still a retard statement to say you can confuse a muscle, if we put this more scientifically we would say challenging the muscle from a different angle.

    Again...the newbies will not benefit from &quot;confusing muscles&quot; specially if they are just starting Weight training...if not they should still take on 3 or so cycles of HST before attemptimp to tweak!</div>
    actually i used the wrong words &quot;confusing the muscle&quot; is a stupid term,what i meant was shocking the muscle,this can and does work.

    but yeah newbies should stick to simple exercises to get used to handling the weight.
  15. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    I can verify the myth about confusion and hypertrophy very easily. My brain has always been confused and I have seen no appreciable hypertrophy in it for years. In fact, the reverse is probably happening! [​IMG]
  16. Siskin#55

    Siskin#55 New Member

    heres my 2 cents worth as I am sort of a newbie to HST. Also, I am a paraplegic.

    I am only able to work my upper body and use only 4 compounds:

    Chin-ups
    Dumbbell Shoulder Press
    Dips
    Incline Dumbbell Press (this replaced weighted push-ups)

    ** I plan on adding a weighted supine row, but the chin ups themselves have already increased my lats/back.

    I'm almost done with my second cycle and friends and family have commented &quot;You seem to be bigger, are you lifting weights? &quot; [​IMG]


    less is more... for the most part.


    Michael B
  17. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Good job Michael! Keep on plugging.
  18. stevejones

    stevejones New Member

    12's,10's,8's,then 5's to make one 8 week cycle, then 1 week SD, repeat

    M,W,F
    Legs:
    Squats-m,w
    leg press-f
    leg curls--m,w,f

    Back:
    Deadlifts-f
    Bent Over Rows--m,w
    Pullups--m,w,f

    Chest
    30 degree incline bench-m,w,f
    dumbbell flies-m,w,f

    Arms:
    Tri Pushdowns--m,w
    Skullcrushers---f

    Shoulders/traps:
    barbell shrugs--m,w,f
    shoulder press--m,w,f
    dumbbell lat raises--m,w,f

    Rotator cuffs:
    cuban press--m,w,f

    Only 1 working set on all exercises (after light to medium warm ups)
  19. thx fausto
    great and helpful thread

    it is so easy to get lost with all the possibilities to tweak hst most of all when you're a seasoned lifter but this just lets you lose the path....

    greez
  20. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    HST lifters who are seasoned have all the tweaks they need in &quot;pimp my hst&quot; e-book, that in short is my opinion.

    Then there is Dan's max stim, absolutely rocking fantastic, wish I could use it for everything!

    Apart from that simplicity is the Key! [​IMG]

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