Squat depth

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by HST_Rihad, Jul 6, 2013.

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  1. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not sure if this has already been covered but just a thought:

    Obviously, heavy partials will place more load on any joints being used for a movement. If you use them exclusively you will have a far greater likelihood of developing joint wear/damage/pain over time. That seems like a foolish thing to do if you plan on maintaining weight-training as a part of your lifestyle.

    On the other hand, using partials at the end of a cycle, for a week or so, maybe for a few exercises, would seem like a much more sensible way of utilising them; but, in order to use partials effectively for muscular hypertrophy, you would need to have dialled in your form for full-ROM movements first. If you don't, you could easily fall into the trap of cheating your muscles out of doing work by using a form which primarily stresses your connective tissue and joints. That won't help with load progression for the targeted muscle tissue at all.

    The other problem, as I see it, with jumping into partials at an early stage in your lifting career, as well as using them for multiple exercises, is that it will likely not allow time for your connective tissue, cartilage etc. to toughen up enough. Depending on how partial your partials are, you will be able to use loads way in excess of what you would be able to manage for full-ROM movements. So, if a heavy set of 5 reps has the potential to make your joints ache, then a much heavier set of partials will most likely be worse.

    IMHO, partials are a more advanced training tool and, as such, trainees should really know what they are doing before introducing them into their training.
     
  2. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Oh God, you actually believe this.

    *eye-roll* ... every self-respecting male has enough self-respect to not buy into arbitrary nonsense like this.


    Story of his thought process.

    It's good that you're driven, but it's not a 300kg leg press. It's a 300kg partial leg press.
     
  3. Sci

    Sci Well-Known Member

    Don't feed the troll. If we all just stop responding to his inane posts, and ignore him, he will shrivel up and disappear. The more we argue and respond, the more active a troll becomes.
     
  4. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    @Sci - fair enough. As Totez said, t's still conflicting when you don't want new forum members to be influenced by his erroneous claims.
     
  5. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    He should be banned for that very reason.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
     
  6. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Just think about it: if as you say the leverage allows me to put less stress on the muscle tissue and more on the joint (the lever) when lifting the weight, this simply isn't true due to the fact that all my lifts have become increasingly difficult neurally as the load progressed from more ROM to less.
     
  7. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Heaver loads are always more difficult (duh ... ).

    You don't understand how to use the word 'stress', in terms of biomechanics. That's probably a language issue though, no harm no foul on that one.


    None of that makes your point valid. 'Heavier lifts are harder so it must be my muscles bearing all of the stress'. The ROM doesn't reduce the load, it just means you're preventing yourself from creating microtrauma to the same degree that legitimate lifts would. The connective tissue is still bearing (relatively) more of the weight for short-range partials, you don't get the same <--> any microtrauma. What you 'feel' is the result of neural work, not impact on muscles. Surely you didn't forget that?
     
  8. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    You don't seem to have an idea what you're talking about. Read this (the first thing Google turned up). Same mechanism that would purportedly allow me to lift heavier loads with less or equal effort. Well, this isn't the case. If you don't think so, think again, because this is what a lever does.

    And please stop bringing up the language issue every time! Stress is stress even in Africa :)
     
  9. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Also, consider the following fact, and not the leverage. I'm sure you've all noticed that doing biceps curls starting from fully straight arm is more difficult than when stopping short of 100% stretch. Well, read this.

    "Muscles operate with greatest active force when close to an ideal length (often their resting length). When stretched or shortened beyond this (whether due to the action of the muscle itself or by an outside force), the maximum active force generated decreases.[SUP][10][/SUP] This decrease is minimal for small deviations, but the force drops off rapidly as the length deviates further from the ideal."

    In our case the overly stretched position in leg presses is a concern. Muscle becomes weaker at that point, but it's not apparent how this helps hypertrophy. Can it be believed that partials done in its extended position with LESS load are the best for hypertrophy? Maybe. Can it be believed that partials done in the contracted position with MORE load are as good for hypertrophy? Maybe (with the added bonus of adapting your CNS & tendons).
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  10. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    It's extremely amusing that someone who doesn't understand leverage is now trying to give a lecture about it.




    You've also made several misquotes and mistaken assumption in your (2nd) post.

    This is full of mistakes and/or assumptions. And it's only 20 or so words long.

    You're assuming that the length that the quads reach during Rihad-Special-Partial-BabyGirl-LegPresses are the ideal length. You're assuming that the extended/end point position of proper leg press form is one that is "overly stretched", hence displaying a clear misunderstanding of what that term actually refers to. You're ignoring that it's a compound exercise, not a quadriceps isolation exercise.

    But go ahead, respond away ... there's plenty more misquotes to be made, I'm sure


    We're all aware of your burning need to have the last word, you can't help it, so go ahead ...
     
  11. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Having nothing constructive to say you're always resorting to "what you're saying is full of assumptions". I can't beat that no matter how hard I try, sorry.
     
  12. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    This thread has lost all meaning. This one is over.
     
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