Squats and deads early in the morning

Fausto

HST Expert
Hi All

I guess I need an informed opinion on this, since a change in my schedule is forcing me to implement having to do a workout early a.m.

I have heard and sincerely believe that heavy squats/Deadlifts early in the morning are bad for the back as the vertebrae tend to be somewhat relaxed and can lead to injury.

How true is this or is it a mith? Opinions? If so how do I get around it, warm up longer? Perhaps only go to 80% or so? Need to know!
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Fausto, for my opinion I think this is just a myth for there are no solid studies that back up this info.. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm correct but who knows.. I think that any kind of lift/exercise no matter what time of the day if not sufficiently warmed up can cause or lead to injury..
 
ryder22

Thanks for that mate! Still think I should be extra careful with warming up properly! Might start giving it a bash!
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Fausto, I'm pretty much certain that there is a small amount of spinal decompression after a night's rest. It probably isn't much though (maybe up to 0.25 to 0.5" tops). I'm not sure how this varies with age but I imagine that as we age the effect of decompression is reduced as spinal discs lose some elasticity.

So, if you do heavy training first thing in the morning you'll re-compress your spine sooner than would otherwise be the case. Just be careful and you should be fine.

For me, the worst part about training early in the morning is getting over the other effects of sleep. In particular, I find it very difficult to get my CNS firing optimally for an hour or so. Coffee helps to get me going. You may be completely different. Some folks love training first thing but I'd rather train at midnight than 6:00am.

I hope you're a morning person. All the best mate.
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Lol

Thanks for the tip, I just needed a little reassurance! So my fears aren't entirely based on "air", there is a slight decompression and one gotta be careful about it!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">For me, the worst part about training early in the morning is getting over the other effects of sleep. In particular, I find it very difficult to get my CNS firing optimally for an hour or so. Coffee helps to get me going. You may be completely different. Some folks love training first thing but I'd rather train at midnight than 6:00am.</div>

Unfortunatelly I suffer from the same &quot;dis-ease&quot;, coffee helps and the exhilarating feeling afterwards but man...is it damn difficult to get going!
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Its not too bad once I get going though!

One other thing, I have been struggling rather badly with my shoulders, even though I take 3000 mg of fish oil or Flaxseed oil caps p/day. Its like a nagging pain right on the joint, sometimes it does not go away the whole day, I have had to give up my Favorite military presses, all I can do now is lateral raises and bent overs, I've been surviving on that. Any tips there?
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For me, personally, it's not about all the science in the previous posts, but, flexibility in the back.

Working out early in the morning with weights (heavy exercises), or carrying a 100 pound rucksack will cause me to either pull muscles in my back or tweak something.

It takes me most of the day, until around mid day before I'll attempt heavy lifting. I believe it takes me that long to get my core temperature up, and keep it there for a while. (Being older and with prior injuries).

So, I'd say the important factors are:

1. Raising your core body temperature sufficiently - even if this means light cardio for a bit
2. Extensive warm-ups, as least more so than usual
3. Stretches, done properly
4. Gauge how you feel!

If you begin to feel ANY discomfort in your back, or joints, then I'd say to rethink the morning workouts.

Also, regarding the military presses - no real loss there. Take the break from them and maybe do &quot;Arnolds&quot; with dumbells. I did an entire HST cycle with &quot;arnolds&quot; and had absolutely NO shoulder pain. I did experience the same shoulder pain when doing military presses. My 22 year old bodybuilding son advised me to stay away from them because he'd read that folks were having problems.

Both of us have had no problems since dumping the military presses. Since I did &quot;arnolds&quot; the last cycle, I'll be doing lateral raises this next cycle, after SD.

Just my two centavos!
 
Master...

More or less what I was thinking of doing, specially the warm-up bit, might end up doing it by the book.
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Just to be safe!

Gym early in the morning is tough as nails, but the afterglow does feel good!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Maybe it's my age, but, if I work out in the morning I'll be needing a serious nap about 11AM! </div>

I feel energized afterwards bt I also do not enjoy a.m. workouts that much, I am doing it out of necessity! Besides I'm not that young myself!
 
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(Fausto @ Feb. 06 2009,2:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">One other thing, I have been struggling rather badly with my shoulders, even though I take 3000 mg of fish oil or Flaxseed oil caps p/day. Its like a nagging pain right on the joint, sometimes it does not go away the whole day, I have had to give up my Favorite military presses, all I can do now is lateral raises and bent overs, I've been surviving on that. Any tips there?
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Search for &quot;rotator cuff&quot;. You will find some information on how to massage those muscles. Also do internal/external rotation stretches after your workout and if necessary on your off days. That will probably fix your problem.
 
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(bgates @ Feb. 09 2009,5:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Search for &quot;rotator cuff&quot;. You will find some information on how to massage those muscles. Also do internal/external rotation stretches after your workout and if necessary on your off days. That will probably fix your problem.</div>
bgates

Its not exactly a muscle pain IMO, it feels like the problem is in the joint itself, but ok I'll have a look, I have an excellent article on this by Eric Crassey, he seems to know his stuff!

By the way, going back to the main focus of this message, I performed squats carefully at 6:00 a.m. yesterday, slowly warmed up to 85% of 5RM and did 3 sets, it went fine and my back is safe, so....yes it can be done, I think the careful part is by default specially if you're not 20 any longer, but even to any age I'd recommend safety first!
 
Muscles can elicit joint pain. It can be especially confusing in the rotator cuff. Tight muscles will pull the shoulder out of alignment and can cause impingement, clicking, etc. Even if the pain is from ligament damage or whatever, the root cause is typically a muscle issue. Fix the muscle, fix the problem. In your case I would bet infraspinatus and supraspinatus. If your range of motion is okay for int/ext rotation and scapular mobility then typically you wont have any problems.
 
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(bgates1654 @ Feb. 10 2009,4:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Muscles can elicit joint pain. It can be especially confusing in the rotator cuff. Tight muscles will pull the shoulder out of alignment and can cause impingement, clicking, etc. Even if the pain is from ligament damage or whatever, the root cause is typically a muscle issue. Fix the muscle, fix the problem. In your case I would bet infraspinatus and supraspinatus. If your range of motion is okay for int/ext rotation and scapular mobility then typically you wont have any problems.</div>
bgates

you may damn well be right, but riht now UI dont have access to a physio, so I have to fix this on me own...

Sounds right as you say...just strange...not like a muscle...right on the edge of the joint!

Man...it gets rather painful. Rather shitty too as I have to minimize shoulder training...always been  a real biggy for me!
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Dr. Stuart McGill, an expert in low-back disorders, recommends waiting at least an hour after waking up before engaging in any exercise that includes trunk flexion (i.e. traditional ab exercises such as crunches).

Overnight, the discs between your vertebrae fill with fluid and are more susceptible to injury in the morning. That’s the reason behind this recommendation.

So don't roll out of bed and start doing sit-ups (not that most people should be doing those anyway – and as you’ll notice in my reports, I don’t include sit-ups in the programs).

If you choose to exercise in the morning, you’ll be fine if you pay attention to your form and exercise selection (just as you should no matter when you exercise).

If you have soreness in the lower back, it is also a good idea to avoid bending over early in the morning (use another posture that is more back friendly when putting on your shoes, socks, picking up dumbbells off the floor, etc.). Always use proper lifting posture when training - no matter what time of day.

Basically, the bottom line is that you can still have a great workout in the morning as long as you are extra careful of your back and lifting technique.
 
Ah...ah! Faz, good recommendation, I thought I'd seen this somewhere, but I managed to get around the scary issues by warming up properly!

I start about 1/2 hour after waking up anyway, so I'm okay, no back pain as such and I will not try PR's that early.

As such the matter is settled in my mind as to what is good and what is not!

Once again horray to all at HST who &quot;popped in&quot; to give a little info, this is a damn good site IMO!
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Tried Deads this morning and yep, felt my back, but so far no issues, I guess I should have warmed up a little better, jumped from 5 x 50 to 5 x 80, before hitting 5 x 100 for 3 sets, it was difficult but it got done! By the way I asm talking Kg's and not Lb's.

I realize now that it is really just the back muscles &quot;complaining&quot; of the brutal workout without food and so early after waking up, but it is doable if one warms up nicely. Just to keep all informed, once agin I am being the &quot;labcoat&quot;.
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Also difficult was the fact that I only had one cup of coffee in and yeah I decided to have a pear too, it helped, at least a little fructose!
 
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(faz @ Feb. 12 2009,4:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dr. Stuart McGill, an expert in low-back disorders, recommends waiting at least an hour after waking up before engaging in any exercise that includes trunk flexion (i.e. traditional ab exercises such as crunches).

Overnight, the discs between your vertebrae fill with fluid and are more susceptible to injury in the morning. That’s the reason behind this recommendation.

So don't roll out of bed and start doing sit-ups (not that most people should be doing those anyway – and as you’ll notice in my reports, I don’t include sit-ups in the programs).

If you choose to exercise in the morning, you’ll be fine if you pay attention to your form and exercise selection (just as you should no matter when you exercise).

If you have soreness in the lower back, it is also a good idea to avoid bending over early in the morning (use another posture that is more back friendly when putting on your shoes, socks, picking up dumbbells off the floor, etc.). Always use proper lifting posture when training - no matter what time of day.

Basically, the bottom line is that you can still have a great workout in the morning as long as you are extra careful of your back and lifting technique.</div>
Wow! Thank you, Faz. This is indeed helpful information.

My back is often sore, particularly in the morning. I have a very hard time getting my socks on. I actually switched to wearing cowboy boots so I don't have to tie laces. If I have to wear a suit, I'll put on loafers.

I have been trying to bend and stretch a bit when I first wake up. Now I'll try waiting at least an hour.
 
no probs.
TBH the times i have hurt my back have been when doing martial arts,i was well warmed up,but when you have to reach down and hold your ankles/toes thats when i heard a crack
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TBH things like yoga etc,if the body was meant to go into those positions,surely it would without having to force it
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i only do dynamic stretches now,and make sure im well warmed up before.
 
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