SS: Novice Routine

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(nipponbiki @ May 22 2008,6:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I still have no clue what I am doing with power cleans. I tried doing the movement really slow today, which is why I could barely do 50 kg. I just don't understand how you are supposed to drag the bar up your thigh after the bar breaks above the knees and still keep the bar path straight. It seems like the only way to do this is to actually pull the bar into me which obviously messes up the bar path. I also can't figure out how I am supposed to rebend the knee for the jump.</div>
There is no way the bar path will be straight even though that might be ideal. Different lifters develop different bar paths in part due to their own individual anthropometry.

You can't really learn to do the movement slowly. I definitely think you should try to clean the bar from a hang position so you get used to where the bar has to hit your thighs and then sort the shrug and jump motion.

Whilst the top lifters do a double knee bend movement (it's a subtle move) I don't think you should be thinking about it yet – some coaches say it happens naturally as you develop the lift. As far as you are concerned I wouldn't think about any rebending of your knees. The jump and shrug should immediately follow the explosive straightening of your legs. Your feet should smack back on to the ground as you rack the bar.

It's a bit like learning to Ollie on a skateboard – timing is everything and, once you get it more right than wrong, the whole movement should flow from start to finish.
 
don't be afraid to impact the bar w/ your quads.  I get bruised pretty good during a clean session.  the hips are key to initiating the jump shrug too.

*digs out his skateboard and heads to the park*

-edit- small wonder I got a 'B' in Geography... summers are fairly brutal in KS too, but I'm loving the climate at the moment. bass fishing has been awesome.
 
This video might help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TlbDQUWs0s

Reread the section on the power and learn it from the top down. Dont worry about the double knee bend. It will most likely come naturally. If you are getting good power then you are doing it right. However if you want to get an idea of the motion, in the video above, about 0:30, watch as the bar clears the knees. She pulls her hips forward, which does two things: 1) it changes the angle of the back and the ground closer to vertical, and 2) the knees come forward over her toes into the power/jumping position. You must essentially scoop the bar up with the thighs and explode as the bar brushes the thighs. Just get your legs under it and jump.
 
Thanks for the advice guys!

Bgates, that video was really helpful. Something definitely clicked in my brain after watching that for 10 minutes.

FF, it's not that I am afraid of banging my thighs, it's just that it didn't feel right to do it by forcing it with my arms. My shins get pretty bruised up when I try power cleans, but not when I do deads!
 
Although this is a snatch vid it's interesting to see the different line the bar takes for the two competitors:

2 x snatch lifts compared

Thought it was a good way to show how different anthropometry can alter the movement/technique. The taller guy has to start the lift with a greater hip angle.

Seeing that bgates posted the vid of the lass cleaning here are a couple more young girl lifters who have great snatch and C&amp;J technique and who are using a bit more weight. Enjoy!  
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Girly Lifters!
 
Cool videos Lol.

I was just thinking the first produced much more power and the second guy has more absolute strength and then they showed the velocity analysis. Pretty cool.

The first girly video was much sexier, but thanks anyway!!
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Oh yeah, always been curious, but do girls take offense to being called lass over there?
 
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(nipponbiki @ May 23 2008,1:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Oh yeah, always been curious, but do girls take offense to being called lass over there?</div>
Well, not the ones I know! It's a Scottish term really with the implication that the young woman is unmarried. I guess it could/should be taken as a compliment but in this crazy world who knows?
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Workout 30 - 5-25-2008

Front Squats: 3 X 5 @ 78.5 kg

Standing Press: 1 X 5, 2 X 4 @ 65 kg

Deadlift: 1 X 5 @ 132.5 kg New 5RM PR!

Weight: 78.7 kg, Waist: 80 cm, Abdomen: 82 cm


I really like front squats. It feels like a much more natural movement to me than back squats---not sure if that is because of my anthropometry or I still am not doing back squats right.

It suddenly hit me today that I have a really bad form habit with heavy presses. It's going to take a couple of workouts and a lot of concentration to fix it, but I think just fixing this form problem will add 2-3 kg to my press.

I nailed those deads today. Got the first rep without straps but thought the bar might actually fall out my hands on the way down. Strapped up and nailed the other 4 without any breathers between reps, just a reset of the back. Haven't had a set like that since 117.5 kg last month!!!
 
Workout 31 - 5-29-2008

Squat: 3 X 5 @ 109 kg

Bench Press: 3 X 5 @ 102 kg

Power Clean: 1 X 3 @ 47 kg, 1 X 3 @ 57 kg, 1 X 3 @ 59.5 kg

Weight: 80.4 kg

My tape measure broke, so I could not measure my waist and abdomen today. Pumped out the squats again with no problem. Pumped out the bench press with no problem as well. The power clean videos really helped to have a frame of reference in my mind on what to do, now it is just a matter of practice. Please check out the video and just rip me open! Haha. (still getting the site set up as well, so any feedback on that is also welcome)

5-29 Video

If you are just curious to see what the Japanese looks like,
Japanese version
 
Snazzy vid!
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It's great that you are having a go at cleans. They really do feel like an almost full-body workout on their own.

A few thoughts:

The second pull is not starting off with the bar in contact with your thighs. Take a look at where the bar hits your thighs when you drop it back down; that's pretty much where it should contact them on the way up too.

Try some hang cleans to get used to the feeling of the second pull where you combine the jump and shrug while you swiftly get under the bar.

Just watch that racking; It looks like your arms are doing too much at the top of the lift. That's because you aren't getting under the bar ready to receive it. I injured my right arm not getting under the bar enough which resulted in me putting a lot of weight on my arms rather than my shoulders. It's taking ages to heal.
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I've been doing a bit of C&amp;J analysis and thought you might be interested. I'm trying to figure out how to get under the bar in a proper squat clean rather than a power clean. I've been looking through various vids frame by frame and dissecting what's going on.

Here's one image that shows up a few interesting things:

C_and_J-lifting-analysis.jpg


Note that when the loads get heavy (like it is here for this fellow) it is likely that you will only be able to pull the bar to around waist height. At this point you should have completed the 'shrug and jump' and will already be dropping rapidly down into a squat position to receive the bar.

I've marked the position of the bar when it is racked and on its way down to the lowest point. The height at which the bar is racked is not far below the highest point which just goes to show how fast the move into the squat under the bar needs to be in order to get a successful lift. It's quite remarkable really. I feel like a sloth compared to a typical trained Oly lifter; that's always going to be my problem with squat cleans unless I can speed up my movement a lot.

For power cleaning, the bar needs to be lifted higher as you are not dropping down into a squat under the bar to rack it. This means that it will never be possible to lift as much weight but the focus is squarely on a powerful shrug and jump (rather than also requiring the speed to get down under the bar) as this provides the impulse to fire the bar up as high as possible.

Anyway, that's enough of my yabbering! Not sure if it's really of much use to you yet but it might help with the mental imagery.
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Lol,

Thanks for t he feedback. Someone left a comment on my site as well. Yes, I am putting too much arm into it, I could feel it when I was trying yesterday.

Practicing before, I was getting the jump. Yesterday, I concentrated solely on imitating that video with pushing my hips out for the second pull. That tends to happen to me, I concentrate too hard on one aspect and then everything else falls apart!

And keep the yabbering coming! I find it interesting anyway, my mind works the same way.
 
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(Lol @ May 29 2008,1:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Try some hang cleans to get used to the feeling of the second pull where you combine the jump and shrug while you swiftly get under the bar.</div>
I would say that this is good advice for sure (Lol = FF's hero). practice will improve your form.

it's a fine line between using enough weight to affect realistic practice w/ the movement and too much too soon.

looks like you're on a great track w/ the lifting. super nice rack! and very nice video work.

what's your theory on bench press form?
 
Workout 32 - 6-1-08

Front Squat: 3 X 5 @ 81 kg

Standing Press: 3 X 5 @ 65 kg

Deadlift: 1 X 5 @ 137.5 kg

Weight: 80.1 kg

This is my third front squat workout, and my first time to video it. Let me know what you think about my form. I felt my elbows were high enough when I was doing it, but after watching the video, maybe not.

Finally got my reps for standing press @ 65 kg. I really concentrated on my form, and it was much better than before. I tried practicing that hip snap that Rippetoe advocates (not in the book, but in some of the videos on www.crossfit.com, and I messed it up on the first rep of the last set, looks kinda like a very slight push press. That has never happened before.

Nailed the deads! Made a big deal about it playing with Windows Movie Maker. Two great dead workouts in a row. However, my form was a little off. I am actually a bit embarrassed to show today's video because of how bad the form is. I mentioned a few weeks ago that I changed the way I approach the bar according to this video, but I had no problems the last few weeks. Anyway, my start wasn't right on the first rep, back too horizontal, which forced the rep with a rounded back. The next reps were better, then the 4th rep was the same as the first. The 5th rep was something in between. My lower back is not in pain, but it sure is a bit pissed at me right now!

Enjoy the movie, I put quite a bit of time into it editing the video and cutting the audio track so that the peak of the song occurred where I wanted it. Gotta get some real editing software now!

6-1 video
 
FF,

The rack is OK. I wanted to get the Powertec one, but I am not going to pay 1000 dollars for something that only costs around 350 in the US!

I chose my rack because it is the only one I could find that had a weight rating over 200 kg. When/if I go back to the states and buy my own house, I want to get one of those rack/platform combos with the oak insert!

As far as form goes, I am a devout Ripptoist.
 
*walks in, looks for 6-4 workout out. is confused. fixes popcorn and watches video of 6-1 workout. is reminded of and spends 20 mins looking for his enigma cd*

that was an excellent &quot;TKO victory&quot; w/ the 300x5 deadlift! nice work.

I know what you're talking about w/ the hip snap comment too. if we're talking about the same vid, he says something like, 'once you get it, you won't ever OHP w/ out doing it&quot;....and I agree.
 
Workout 33 - 6-3-2008

Squats: 3 X 5 @ 110 kg

Bench Press: 2 X 5, 1 X 4 @ 103.5 kg

Power Cleans: Practice with 40 and 50 kg

Weight: 80.2 kg


This squat workout was interesting. For some reason the second set was really difficult and I thought I was going to fail the third. I don't know exactly what I did, but something in my form was different and I felt the 'bounce' for the first time! And I was able to reproduce for the other 4 reps. I knocked that last set out like it was only 95 kg. I hope I can keep reproducing this. Extremely unfortunately, I did not video this workout because I felt like it wasn't going to be a good one before I started.

Bench press was also good despite missing the last rep of the last set. I was keeping in mind what was said about shoulders in the recent post about benching. Like Lol said, if you do the bench press as Rip advocates (IOW, correctly), you don't need to actively concentrate on the shoulders as was mentioned in the recent post. It is nice to have a couple of different perspectives for one thing though, and the shoulder thing acts a nice way of checking your form during the movement. Although I have always retracted my shoulder blades for bench, the biggest change I made to my form after being Riptised was the arched back and pushing your upper body up on your shoulders a bit with your feet. If you just retract your shoulder blades, I can see how it would be very easy to loose it and starting pushing with your shoulders when it gets heavy. The arch and pushing with your feet really helps to keep everything locked and allows better control over the bar, which allows one to really fight for a rep when necessary (or desired) WITHOUT worry of injury. Also, as noted in the beginning of this log, I am not actively trying to gain weight (hypertrophy). My actual goal is to gain as much strength as I can while not gaining any extra fat. Yet, in these couple of months since I changed my bench form, my chest has never looked better.

Power cleans getting a little better, but still have a long way to go. I was able to touch the bar to my thigh better, but I am still not getting a good jump, nor am I getting under the bar, just continuing to force it up to my shoulders. Heed Lol's advice about forcing the bar with your arms. Although far from injured, I definitely feel a very deep soreness somewhere in my arms underneath the biceps.

No video, but I am planning to put a 'Current Stats' page with some pictures and all my current measurements up on the website either today or tomorrow.
 
Front Squats: 3 X 5 @ 83.5 kg

Standing Press: 3 X 5 @ 66 kg PR!

Deadlift: 1 X 2 @ 142.5 kg

Weight: 79.7 kg


4th front squat workout and I think it went well. I looked over that section in BBT and noticed the little note about longish forearms causing elbows to drop a bit, so I widened my grip a bit. Anyway, I still like them more than normal squats. I hope I can get a few comments about my form this time (cough cough).

After having so much trouble with 64 and 65 kg presses, I was a bit nervous about today's 66 kg presses, but they went up without any trouble. My form was the best it has ever been, but it did break down into my old habit for the last 2 reps of the last set. Unfortunately, the sweet was ever so shortly lived...

Deadlifts. Tried to approach the bar better, but I may have dropped my hips too low, I am not sure about this. At any rate, I only got 2 reps, even after taking a minute or so break and trying again. Think I will ask Rip about it.

Pics are gonna have to wait a few more days until I have to chance to trim up all this nasty body hair!

6-7-08 Video

I fixed the autostart problem last week, or so I thought, but I noticed that the videos were still autostarting in IE. Fixed that today.
 
Good going with the front squats. They look okay to me although it would be good to see your feet in the frame as well. Fun aren't they?  
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For deads, it looks to me as if your hips are coming up too soon. By the time you are actually getting the bar off the floor your back is almost horizontal, similar to where it would be if you used a wide snatch grip. That's going to put more load on your lower back and you are missing out on your quad drive. My guess is that the bar is not dragging up your shins either because otherwise your legs would be grazed and bleeding with no socks on (mine get grazed even with long training pants on).

So keep your butt down as you start the pull and try and keep your back angle pretty constant until the bar gets over your knees and also get the bar closer to your legs.

Any chance you could do some front and side views of your deads too? I think that'll help to figure out what's happening.
 
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