Still doing arm isolations?
- Thread starter jvroig
- Start date
Fausto
HST Expert
Jester
Good question.
I have been to a site that gives your grecian proportions based on I think on ankle girth vs. height or something like it and vragtie....it looks like almost spot on.
So if you want much bigger...you will have to dabble on the AAS territory, that should draw a fairly clear line for who wants to look proprotional and genetically capable or who want s to go further...simple matter of choice.
Good question.
I have been to a site that gives your grecian proportions based on I think on ankle girth vs. height or something like it and vragtie....it looks like almost spot on.
So if you want much bigger...you will have to dabble on the AAS territory, that should draw a fairly clear line for who wants to look proprotional and genetically capable or who want s to go further...simple matter of choice.
I do bis and tris because I do think it is really helpful for most guys when it comes to arm size. In order for big compound lifts like chins and dips to put on good arm size you need to be fairly strong. But hey, who wants to entirely give up curls and tris?
Nevertheless, the biggest change to your overall appearance will come from the compound chest and back movements.
Nevertheless, the biggest change to your overall appearance will come from the compound chest and back movements.
bluejacket
New Member
my personal experience.
always did some form of bicep exer for yrs in addit. to core moves etc. but never concentrated on them. about 4 mo. ago i strained my braichialis (sp?)most likely doing some ill advised forearm exer. im just now getting back to doing direct bi work with no other lifts having been affected during that time except for heavy push press.
the result.....while all my other lifts continued to progress and muscle size stayed constant (maint. period) my biceps shrunk by comparison. nothing major but i was not expecting this due to the rest of my lifts going well, bi's never being a priority nor a strong point. total loss was 3/8 inch.
bi's will still not be more important than my core lifts but i will continue to work them directly with all my workouts.
always did some form of bicep exer for yrs in addit. to core moves etc. but never concentrated on them. about 4 mo. ago i strained my braichialis (sp?)most likely doing some ill advised forearm exer. im just now getting back to doing direct bi work with no other lifts having been affected during that time except for heavy push press.
the result.....while all my other lifts continued to progress and muscle size stayed constant (maint. period) my biceps shrunk by comparison. nothing major but i was not expecting this due to the rest of my lifts going well, bi's never being a priority nor a strong point. total loss was 3/8 inch.
bi's will still not be more important than my core lifts but i will continue to work them directly with all my workouts.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Still do them!
mostlyallan
New Member
I totally cut isolations during this cycle and am working exclusively with compounds. I haven't finished the cycle yet (another week or so) but I can see an overall body size increase and if anything, I think my arms have increased more than when I've been doing previous cycles with isos.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">how do you guys make your arm-isolations,
1)to failure
2)just to get a pump or
3)in hst style, every trainingday more load till you have reached your rm
??
for me a good thing the last cycle was to add curls at two times a week, just to get a pump. </div>
hey choco, I think everyone in this forum does pretty much everything HST style! So no failure and not necessarily to a pump. But if you enjoy training that way, thats cool. Personally I think iso's are necessary and that the arms are more often overworked than underworked but there fun to do occasionally
1)to failure
2)just to get a pump or
3)in hst style, every trainingday more load till you have reached your rm
??
for me a good thing the last cycle was to add curls at two times a week, just to get a pump. </div>
hey choco, I think everyone in this forum does pretty much everything HST style! So no failure and not necessarily to a pump. But if you enjoy training that way, thats cool. Personally I think iso's are necessary and that the arms are more often overworked than underworked but there fun to do occasionally
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">how do you guys make your arm-isolations,
1)to failure
2)just to get a pump or
3)in hst style, every trainingday more load till you have reached your rm
??
for me a good thing the last cycle was to add curls at two times a week, just to get a pump. </div>
I usually use them for burn sets (metabolic work) after I completed my main workout.
When I included isolations in my actual workout, i'd make sure they were stretch-point exercises.
I just don't think you could stress enough load with iso's vs most compound movements. Kinda like it's you can probably hold 300-400lbs on a barbell to workout your traps vs holding 100-140lbs each arm to work it out.
Just my 0.02
1)to failure
2)just to get a pump or
3)in hst style, every trainingday more load till you have reached your rm
??
for me a good thing the last cycle was to add curls at two times a week, just to get a pump. </div>
I usually use them for burn sets (metabolic work) after I completed my main workout.
When I included isolations in my actual workout, i'd make sure they were stretch-point exercises.
I just don't think you could stress enough load with iso's vs most compound movements. Kinda like it's you can probably hold 300-400lbs on a barbell to workout your traps vs holding 100-140lbs each arm to work it out.
Just my 0.02
I think I may be adding in some isos for triceps soon. I've been doing compounds only, using isos for burn sets for a long time and am finding that my biceps are getting huge, but my triceps aren't. My arms aren't that big, I'm still a little bit off from 16 inches, but my biceps look huge. My triceps don't. Like I have the bi's of an 18 incher and the tri's of a 13 inch arm.
So... iso's may be necessary at some points, but I think it's only really necessary when you are trying to balance out something that is unbalanced. I don't think isos would have helped when I only had 14 inch arms though.
So... iso's may be necessary at some points, but I think it's only really necessary when you are trying to balance out something that is unbalanced. I don't think isos would have helped when I only had 14 inch arms though.
Tom Treutlein
New Member
Isolation stuff in the higher rep ranges would be beneficial due to the ability of the muscle to store more glycogen, no? "Pump-growth" kinda thing?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My arms aren't that big, I'm still a little bit off from 16 inches, but my biceps look huge. My triceps don't. Like I have the bi's of an 18 incher and the tri's of a 13 inch arm.</div>
Tot: I seem to have the opposite 'problem' (tris doing really well, bis not so much)! Just out of interest, how do you respond to dips and what kind of poundages have you managed to push yourself to on them? Do you do negs for dips?
Not sure if my experience will be of any use but thought I'd through it in the mix just in case.
I have really been pushing my dips up over the last few cycles. Last cycle I finished up getting 7 reps with a 110lb dumbell that I had thought I would be using for negs only. By my third set during 5s I would get as many positive reps before failure and then switch to negs until I couldn't descend slower than about 2 secs. I never got to find out how heavy I could go for negs only as I ran out of cycle! I'm sure dips would have remained productive for a while longer but the rest of me was fried.
So, right now it seems that dips are the exercise that give me best gains in my tris. I have done very little iso work for the last two cycles - not because I don't want to, but because I usually run out of time and/or steam. I'm sure if you did a cycle where you really pushed your dips (if you aren't already) and did some tri extensions too, you would get your tris catching up with your bis.
Tot: I seem to have the opposite 'problem' (tris doing really well, bis not so much)! Just out of interest, how do you respond to dips and what kind of poundages have you managed to push yourself to on them? Do you do negs for dips?
Not sure if my experience will be of any use but thought I'd through it in the mix just in case.
I have really been pushing my dips up over the last few cycles. Last cycle I finished up getting 7 reps with a 110lb dumbell that I had thought I would be using for negs only. By my third set during 5s I would get as many positive reps before failure and then switch to negs until I couldn't descend slower than about 2 secs. I never got to find out how heavy I could go for negs only as I ran out of cycle! I'm sure dips would have remained productive for a while longer but the rest of me was fried.
So, right now it seems that dips are the exercise that give me best gains in my tris. I have done very little iso work for the last two cycles - not because I don't want to, but because I usually run out of time and/or steam. I'm sure if you did a cycle where you really pushed your dips (if you aren't already) and did some tri extensions too, you would get your tris catching up with your bis.
I haven't been dipping for a while - still trying to get my shoulders completely rehabbed. Dipping seems to aggravate it a bit. Oh, and my homemade dip station is all screwed up.
Last time I was doing them, I was only doing about 50 lbs plus BW for my 5 RM. I don't remember my weight then, around 200 I think. I'm going to try to get back into dips as soon as I fix up something to dip from though, for now I'm sticking to close-grip bench press for my tris. I might do tricep extensions on my off days for some metabolic work as well, I don't know yet though.
I was thinking about my arm imbalance, and I think it may have to do with the fact that I do a lot more pulling than pushing type exercises. I do on average only 2 pushing lifts, usually ending up only about 3 sets, whereas I do about 6 - 8 sets of pulling movements. I don't know for sure though. Maybe some of you guys with big tri's do a lot of pushing exercises?
Anyway, at the very least, maybe I can get two chairs to do dips during my negatives. I think that suggestion would definitely work...
Last time I was doing them, I was only doing about 50 lbs plus BW for my 5 RM. I don't remember my weight then, around 200 I think. I'm going to try to get back into dips as soon as I fix up something to dip from though, for now I'm sticking to close-grip bench press for my tris. I might do tricep extensions on my off days for some metabolic work as well, I don't know yet though.
I was thinking about my arm imbalance, and I think it may have to do with the fact that I do a lot more pulling than pushing type exercises. I do on average only 2 pushing lifts, usually ending up only about 3 sets, whereas I do about 6 - 8 sets of pulling movements. I don't know for sure though. Maybe some of you guys with big tri's do a lot of pushing exercises?
Anyway, at the very least, maybe I can get two chairs to do dips during my negatives. I think that suggestion would definitely work...
I voted yes, but I have made a change in when. I noted several posts here that suggest that RBE might come on pretty quickly doing arm iso's during the full cycle; so this last one, I added them only during the 5's. I've found that during this cycle (I'm in the post-5's right now) I've added 3/4" to my upper arm (measured cold). For me this is a significant gain.
I was thinking about arm isolations the other day and it ocurred to me that 'traditional' body building thinking seems to have things backwards.
If you look at a typical upper body workout - lets say you pick exercises that fulfill the following functions:
chest press of some description
shoulder press of some description
some form of row
some form of chins/pull downs
some form of shoulder isolation (e.g. lateral raise)
tricep isolation
bicep isolation
I'd say that's a very common pick of exercise types and what it boils down to is the chest is involved in 1 exercise, the back in 2 and shoulders, triceps and biceps in 3 each. The smallest muscles are getting the most work and the largest the least.
So does it not stand to reason that ahead of arm isolations, chest and back isolations should be considered first to ensure that the largest body parts get the most work? Or possibly just use compound exercises?
I've cut out arm isolation exercises recently and just ensured that my chins and rows are done using an underhand grip to emphasise biceps. Previously I always used arm isolations at the end of my workout but lifting heavy meant I was wiped out and cut them out and I've felt no ill effects. That got me thinking about the issue and led me to the conclusion that it's not logical to use arm isolations and thereby give my arms more stimulation than my chest/back.
Be interested to see what people think.
Cheers
Rob
If you look at a typical upper body workout - lets say you pick exercises that fulfill the following functions:
chest press of some description
shoulder press of some description
some form of row
some form of chins/pull downs
some form of shoulder isolation (e.g. lateral raise)
tricep isolation
bicep isolation
I'd say that's a very common pick of exercise types and what it boils down to is the chest is involved in 1 exercise, the back in 2 and shoulders, triceps and biceps in 3 each. The smallest muscles are getting the most work and the largest the least.
So does it not stand to reason that ahead of arm isolations, chest and back isolations should be considered first to ensure that the largest body parts get the most work? Or possibly just use compound exercises?
I've cut out arm isolation exercises recently and just ensured that my chins and rows are done using an underhand grip to emphasise biceps. Previously I always used arm isolations at the end of my workout but lifting heavy meant I was wiped out and cut them out and I've felt no ill effects. That got me thinking about the issue and led me to the conclusion that it's not logical to use arm isolations and thereby give my arms more stimulation than my chest/back.
Be interested to see what people think.
Cheers
Rob
Nicely put Robefc, I couldn't agree more.
I think a lot of peoples quest for huge arms and the way they train to acheive that is stopping them getting there. By the time I've done my whole body my arms are pumped to hell and I can feel that they have been worked enough. The only exception to this is in the 5's.
Most gyms I've been to have their share of young kids blasting the hell out of their arms and not much else and I think its a shame.
Just my 2p.
J
I think a lot of peoples quest for huge arms and the way they train to acheive that is stopping them getting there. By the time I've done my whole body my arms are pumped to hell and I can feel that they have been worked enough. The only exception to this is in the 5's.
Most gyms I've been to have their share of young kids blasting the hell out of their arms and not much else and I think its a shame.
Just my 2p.
J