Testosterone levels + other stuff

Yeah, goes against what one would normally assume.  This is apparently not the only study to find this association.  Here is a quote from one of the related articles that shows up in the PubMed side bar:

"Both total and free testosterone were positively associated with tobacco consumption ... and total testosterone was positively associated with coffee consumption."

It was widely reported in the media lately that test levels are declining in North American men.  Wouldn't it be a kick in the head if healthier lifestyles had something to do with this?! Of course, with a Starbucks about every 20 feet in some towns, it is hard to imagine that coffee consumption is down.  

Well, there you have it: coffee and cancer sticks -- the breakfast of champions.  
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You have to be really careful in interpreting these kinds of correlations in studies. I doubt smoking has a positive impact on testosterone, I'd suggest a secondary correlation (something around the attitudes of high testosterone men making them more likely to be risk takers, risk takers are more likely to be smokers). Similar with the depression study, I'd bet there's a secondary correlation (off the top of my head (and without having looked at the study), for example you'd have to think that depressed people are less likely to undertake exercise and eat a nutritional diet, which is likely to impact upon testosterone. Or depression is correlated with insomnia, lack of sleep can impact on hormonal functioning... Etc etc...
 
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(berserk @ Jan. 16 2007,21:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What about blood glucose though? Unless fasted, those results would vary wildly!</div>
I believe you are correct. I'm not sure why he didn't mention that.

I had some blood work done before I started my current job a few years ago and they didn't tell me to fast first and I ended up drinking a can of Coke-a-cola about an hour before my blood was drawn. When the Dr. got the results they were like, &quot;you need to get a sugar test done right away!&quot;. Then I proceded to tell the Dr. about drinking the Coke before my blood was drawn and he said, &quot;oh...didn't they tell you to fast first&quot;? So rather than having the 3 hour sugar test done they just did &quot;fasted&quot; glucose test and everything was ok.
 
I've started to drink more coffee.. pretty stupid, I know, but it's worth a shot. And it's not like it can hurt.
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You have to be really careful in interpreting these kinds of correlations in studies. I doubt smoking has a positive impact on testosterone, I'd suggest a secondary correlation (something around the attitudes of high testosterone men making them more likely to be risk takers, risk takers are more likely to be smokers). Similar with the depression study, I'd bet there's a secondary correlation (off the top of my head (and without having looked at the study), for example you'd have to think that depressed people are less likely to undertake exercise and eat a nutritional diet, which is likely to impact upon testosterone. Or depression is correlated with insomnia, lack of sleep can impact on hormonal functioning... Etc etc... </div>

You make a very valid point there. I also thought of the possibility that smokers might on average be risk takers, and that a risk taking personality may be the result of high testosterone levels. It would be interesting to know more. I'll have to do some digging in the PubMed archives.

The depression thing was legit, though, as far as I can tell. They measured the pulsatile secretion of LH while the patients slept, and it was concluded that it was severely disturbed in the depressed group. Also, both groups were classified as physically healthy (i.e. non smokers, no heavy consumption of alcohol, normal body mass index etc).
It seems to have something to do with the activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenaline (or HPA) system, which kicks in during episodes of moderate to severe depression.
 
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(LittleBigHorn @ Jan. 16 2007,05:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Jonpaul,
how old are you, if you don't mind me asking? It's just that levels below 500 may be normal and even expected for men in their 40's - 60's. My lab test gave me a reference range of 14 nmol - 36 nmol (400 - 1028), which would place my T levels at the very bottom of the normal range. And mind you, the reference range was for men of all ages, so you'd expect young, healthy guys to be in the 19 - 30 range (with some exceptional men scoring even higher).
But you're right.. making gains is about more than testosterone. If it was all about T, women wouldn't be able to make any kind of gains! Of course other hormones such as GH etc also play a big role (not to mention nutrition, training, lifestyle etc), but at the end of the day, testosterone is probably the single most deciding factor that determines how fast you'll pack on muscle, lose fat, and how big you can ultimately get.

BTW, what are your nationalities? Maybe the levels the guys in this thread are reporting are a representation of the average American T level.
Perhaps your status as citizens of the world's leading superpower (even if it is currently not exactly the most popular and well liked nation) subconsciously raises your collective T levels to above average heights?  
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What really bummed me out was a study I read yesterday, in which the effects of depression on the gonadal functioning of men had been tested. There were two focus groups; one consisting of men experiencing moderate to severe depression, and the other consisting of healthy, non depressed men. It was concluded that moderate to severe depression had a pronounced suppressing effect on the pulsatile LH secretion that normally occurs during the night. Normal, healthy men tend to have peak T levels when they wake up, and those levels slowly decline towards the evening. Severely depressed men, on the other hand, have markedly lower levels during the day and especially during the night, since their LH and testosterone secretion is disturbed. In effect, their hormonal functioning is actually higher in the daytime and evening. Men who were only slightly depressed showed no statistically significant difference in their hormonal levels when compared to their healthy counterparts.

Now, I can't say I'm depressed at the moment, at least not severely (not counting a slight winter blues, but that's to be expected during this time of year). I've had bad episodes, and I always wondered why I woke up feeling like crap (now we have an explanation to what causes severely depressed people, especially men, to feel worse in the morning, and gradually better towards evening).

The point of all this was that both groups of men ranged in age from 45 - 80, or something like that. The healthy group had an average mean T level of 17.65 nmol! That's pretty much my T level exactly (well, mine was slightly higher at 17.95), and I'm 22! I'm not currently depressed, so that can be ruled out as a factor that could be lowering my T levels. So basically I have the testosterone levels of a middle aged or old man.  
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 Unless they somehow managed to only pick individuals that have higher than average T levels for the healthy group (not very likely).

Berserk, are you sure you're supposed to get your T levels checked in a fasted state? It's just that they specified it was needed because I was also getting my blood glucose levels tested.. they didn't say it would have been needed for the other stuff (testosterone, thyroid hormones etc). And I have to say my head was aching and I felt pretty exhausted from not eating by the time I was getting my blood drawn.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My understanding on the general reference levels provided by commercial labs is that they are merely based upon the population of test results they have generated. Of course, this lack of controls makes getting age-adjusted references from commercial labs nearly impossible. </div>

Could be. However, if the study I read (the depression thing) counts for anything, at least your testosterone levels at 570 are higher than average for your age, based on the average mean level for healthy men aged 45-80 being 17.65, or 504.</div>
Mid Thirties.
 
Hey LittleBigHorn.
If it helps you any, the reference levels when i tested my T levels were 9-31 nmol (Probably since im from a different country than you)
And i scored just a little higher than you (19,9 nmol) at the age of 21.
 
Owndawg, 19.9 isn't bad for a young man. Did you get your T levels checked in a fasted state or not? Also, JonPaul, same question, if you don't mind me asking.

It would be interesting to know how big of a negative impact the fact that I had mine taken after 12 hours of fasting had on the results. I was certainly feeling like crap from low blood sugar levels by the time they were drawing my blood...
 
I tested it in a fasted state.

I actually got tested one year earlier when i was NOT in a fasted state and ended up at low 11.7 nmol.

so i guess it makes a big difference.
 
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