TG´s HST ***Give it Hell*** LOG

Although, like Alex said, you probably don't need to do any extra ab work at this stage, if you are keen to do an ab exercise, have you tried knees-to-chest when hanging from a chinning bar? You can lift your knees straight up or to either side if you want to involve obliques more. If they feel easy, try toes to bar. Try to keep your arms straight throughout the movement.
 
Re adding higher-rep metabolic sets:

Once you get to your second week of 5s, you may well find that the tight, full-feeling you had in your muscles up to that point in the cycle has started to go away. This is often due to muscle glycogen stores having less demand placed on them once you are at the heavy, low-rep end of the cycle and so they start to deplete. This is where adding in a metabolic burn set can keep the muscle glycogen demand high. I would tend to drop the load by around 20-25% and knock out a set of 10-15 reps. Aim for a bit of a muscle burn like you did during 15s.

Like Sci and Alex have said, doing a lighter metabolic set after your heavy sets isn't going to do much for hypertrophy, but, in my experience, it definitely helps with muscle glycogen storage and that isn't a bad thing. :) Just bear in mind that a metabolic burn set for each exercise will take more energy. So, if you are already finding 5s tough, and/or finding it hard to take in enough cals for growth, then don't bother with them.
 
Lol said:
Re adding higher-rep metabolic sets:

Once you get to your second week of 5s, you may well find that the tight, full-feeling you had in your muscles up to that point in the cycle has started to go away. This is often due to muscle glycogen stores having less demand placed on them once you are at the heavy, low-rep end of the cycle and so they start to deplete. This is where adding in a metabolic burn set can keep the muscle glycogen demand high. I would tend to drop the load by around 20-25% and knock out a set of 10-15 reps. Aim for a bit of a muscle burn like you did during 15s.

Like Sci and Alex have said, doing a lighter metabolic set after your heavy sets isn't going to do much for hypertrophy, but, in my experience, it definitely helps with muscle glycogen storage and that isn't a bad thing. :) Just bear in mind that a metabolic burn set for each exercise will take more energy. So, if you are already finding 5s tough, and/or finding it hard to take in enough cals for growth, then don't bother with them.
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ok. thanks.
I thought to include them when the 5´s start. So I get used to them and the weight on the metabolic sets will raise in relation to the 5´s.
 
Lol said:
Although, like Alex said, you probably don't need to do any extra ab work at this stage, if you are keen to do an ab exercise, have you tried knees-to-chest when hanging from a chinning bar? You can lift your knees straight up or to either side if you want to involve obliques more. If they feel easy, try toes to bar. Try to keep your arms straight throughout the movement.
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You mean the hanging leg raise right?
is the main point that you have spinal flexion invoved in an ab exercises? I think lyle mcDo had written sth about it and the problems with holding the back straight which leads to a more hip flexion movement and static ab exercise.
 
Btw, you log would be more effective if you actually noted down everything you did. Ala, sets, reps, exercises.
 
5th session of 15

Bench: 60x15/15
Cable Row: 52.5x15/15
Dumbbell shoulder Press: 20x15/15
Pulldown: 55x15/15
Cable Curl: 37.5x15
Pushdown: 57.5x15/15
Leg Press feet high: 65x15/15
Leg Curl: 17.5x15/15
Hyperxtension:+4kgx12
Leg raise x10
----------------
Comments:

To be honest I am really drained. I could not do one more set. Its really close to my limit regarding overall work capacity and I wonder that its still so draining energy wise after 5 sessions.

Workout lasted 90 minutes and I needed about 3 min rest between exercises. i was damn happy when it was over.
hst is not easy at all.

The second set was not to failure but really close to. PERHAPS I had one more rep in.

So I thought how to proceed next and last session of 15´s. I thought to drop to one set and eventually try a PR. or should i still shoot for 2 sets even when failing in the second?
Next week when the 10 begins I would start with 2 sets again and 75%of my 10RPM as stated on the bginning of this thread.
this zig zag will feel great for deload.

I need Pizza.
 
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Your 15's workout shouldn't be taking 90mins, especially with so few exercises.

My blunt advice is to just toughen it up on the rest periods. In the alternate, cut out the isolation exercises for your arms.

Just do the normal HST protocol. Do NOT start playing around just because it's the last session of 15s. There really is no benefit to over-analysing and trying to micromanage individual sessions. Muscle is built over weeks and months.

Pizza is v.good for bulking.
 
AlexAustralia said:
Your 15's workout shouldn't be taking 90mins, especially with so few exercises.

My blunt advice is to just toughen it up on the rest periods. In the alternate, cut out the isolation exercises for your arms.

Just do the normal HST protocol. Do NOT start playing around just because it's the last session of 15s. There really is no benefit to over-analysing and trying to micromanage individual sessions. Muscle is built over weeks and months.

Pizza is v.good for bulking.
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Thanks alex.
Well if I toughen up the rest periods I will loose reps on my second set thats why I lengthen them. Thats also what TOT suggested.
 
thegentleman1981 said:
Thanks alex.
Well if I toughen up the rest periods I will loose reps on my second set thats why I lengthen them. Thats also what TOT suggested.
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90mins is going to increase your cortisol production for a few weeks until your body adjust (cortisol is v.v.bad if you're trying to bulk). And on top of that, 3mins is just a LONG wait for 15s. It shouldn't take that long. Just cut it down to 2.30 at least, then 2min a bit after that.
 
AlexAustralia said:
90mins is going to increase your cortisol production for a few weeks until your body adjust (cortisol is v.v.bad if you're trying to bulk). And on top of that, 3mins is just a LONG wait for 15s. It shouldn't take that long. Just cut it down to 2.30 at least, then 2min a bit after that.
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Hasn´t the one hour cortisol thing been a myth?:
http://thinkmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?41605-Training-over-1-hour

Do you mean I should cluster the reps then? With 2 min rest I won´t get the second set.
 
My understanding, from Lyle McD, is that it's a 'myth' that cortisol levels increase after 1hour, forever. Rather that working out for longer than ~ 1hr will cause your cortisol levels to go up, and the body just adjusts over a short period of time to exercise longer. I wasn't aware that increased cortisol levels doesn't interfere/inhibit muscle growth, would want to read that study before making a comment about it.

Regardless, put all cortisol issues and their degree of relevance aside, working out for 90mins at your fitness levels is just not ideal. There's no way the last half-hour is going to have the same 'energy'/effort as the first or second half hour. And again, you kept saying you have fatigue problems ... why would you do more strenuous sessions if that's the case?
 
thats true alex.

But compromising the SAME workout in less time-wouldn´t that fatigue me even more? The rest is needed to load me up again. If I cut it shorter-isn´t that less effective in my case? I will fatigue faster because I rest less.

Perhaps I should really cut out some exercises. Thats seems to make sense.

I thought of following:
-The leg curl. I have hyperextensions in which can also be seen like machine Romanian Deadlift.
-The biceps Curl. I have a lot of biceps involvement as you mentioned too.
-The pulldown, because I have the rows in it. In this case I am not sure because it would be the antagonstic exercise of the dumbbell press. And push/pull ratio should be balanced.

I could also cut down the secondary exercises to one set:

Leg Press 2 sets (I have the feet high,so more hammies for me)
Bench 2 sets
Row 2 sets

Leg Curl 1 set or only hyperextension.
Dumbell Press 1 set
Pulldown 1 set.
Curls 1 set
Pushdowns 1 set.

What do you think alex?
 
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thegentleman1981 said:
thats true alex.

But compromising the SAME workout in less time-wouldn´t that fatigue me even more? The rest is needed to load me up again. If I cut it shorter-isn´t that less effective in my case? I will fatigue faster because I rest less.

Perhaps I should really cut out some exercises. Thats seems to make sense.

I thought of following:
-The leg curl. I have hyperextensions in which can also be seen like machine Romanian Deadlift.
-The biceps Curl. I have a lot of biceps involvement as you mentioned too.
-The pulldown, because I have the rows in it. In this case I am not sure because it would be the antagonstic exercise of the dumbbell press. And push/pull ratio should be balanced.

I could also cut down the secondary exercises to one set:

Leg Press 2 sets (I have the feet high,so more hammies for me)
Bench 2 sets
Row 2 sets

Leg Curl 1 set or only hyperextension.
Dumbell Press 1 set
Pulldown 1 set.
Curls 1 set
Pushdowns 1 set.

What do you think alex?
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Just do the core stuff, and you will be better off imo. Alex is right, cut some exercises to get overall volume down, you are doing too much too soon. Just do one set per exercise since you are close to your maxes, you can always go back to 2 or more sets later on, if you want to. I would cut all the isolation stuff, and focus on 6 "big" exercises. such as:

Leg Press 1 set
Bench 1 set
Row 1 set

Leg Curl OR hyperextension 1 set
Dumbell Press 1 set
Pulldown 1 set

Try this and you should be able to handle it better.
 
thegentleman1981 said:
thats true alex.

But compromising the SAME workout in less time-wouldn´t that fatigue me even more? The rest is needed to load me up again. If I cut it shorter-isn´t that less effective in my case? I will fatigue faster because I rest less.
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I think you're confusing the meaning of 'fatigue' and 'tired'. The 2nd half of the 15s portion is, quite naturally, going to leave you tired and feeling somewhat exhausted after each workout. Doing 15RM for all your exercises is a stone cold bitch, no doubt about it. However, that's not a case of fatigue. Fatigue is a chronic effect that accumulates and/or lasts. Many lifters often feel fatigued at the end of a program, or similarly, many sports professionals ala NBA players, soccer players etc will start to feel fatigued towards the end of their season.

Yes, shorter rest periods will take a little while to get used to. And please note, I am only advocating shorter rest periods for lighter weights/more reps. 3mins is probably the minimum rest I would take between clusters/sets for heavy rep ranges.


My first step would be to cut down on rest periods, flare up and get it done. This is my biggest sticking point. You don't have a significant # of exercises, it's a pretty light program. 60-65mins? Sure. 90mins??? No way. Just suck it up, breath more deeply, don't wander about the gym between sets and make it happen. That's my advice.

Secondly, I would cut out the arm isolations for 15s. I only use the iso exercises myself when doing heavy weights as I've discussed elsewhere.
 
Sci said:
Just do the core stuff, and you will be better off imo. Alex is right, cut some exercises to get overall volume down, you are doing too much too soon. Just do one set per exercise since you are close to your maxes, you can always go back to 2 or more sets later on, if you want to. I would cut all the isolation stuff, and focus on 6 "big" exercises. such as:

Leg Press 1 set
Bench 1 set
Row 1 set

Leg Curl OR hyperextension 1 set
Dumbell Press 1 set
Pulldown 1 set

Try this and you should be able to handle it better.
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Thanks. that sounds good.
I also read in a thread that its suggested to train the first 3 sessions of a cycle with 2 sets and the last 3 with one set.
Might be an option too.
 
Enough with the over-analysing. Seriously. Just focus on doing the actual work, and doing it in a manner that's timely. Weight-lifting is meant to be hard. If it wasn't, and it like eating or sleeping, everyone would do it, and do it all the time. It takes effort and stamina and stubbornness to see it through. I think you'll find the program a LOT easier if you just stop trying to overplan and micro-manage every single element. Let it be and go lift iron.
 
AlexAustralia said:
I think you're confusing the meaning of 'fatigue' and 'tired'. The 2nd half of the 15s portion is, quite naturally, going to leave you tired and feeling somewhat exhausted after each workout. Doing 15RM for all your exercises is a stone cold bitch, no doubt about it. However, that's not a case of fatigue. Fatigue is a chronic effect that accumulates and/or lasts. Many lifters often feel fatigued at the end of a program, or similarly, many sports professionals ala NBA players, soccer players etc will start to feel fatigued towards the end of their season.

Yes, shorter rest periods will take a little while to get used to. And please note, I am only advocating shorter rest periods for lighter weights/more reps. 3mins is probably the minimum rest I would take between clusters/sets for heavy rep ranges.


My first step would be to cut down on rest periods, flare up and get it done. This is my biggest sticking point. You don't have a significant # of exercises, it's a pretty light program. 60-65mins? Sure. 90mins??? No way. Just suck it up, breath more deeply, don't wander about the gym between sets and make it happen. That's my advice.

Secondly, I would cut out the arm isolations for 15s. I only use the iso exercises myself when doing heavy weights as I've discussed elsewhere.
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Thanks Alex. LAst return from my side:

In my old programm I used to train with higher reps too. 2 sets of 15 with a rest period of 45seconds. I could do that. But the BIG difference is, is that I trained with sets across in this old programm and only uppen the weight if I got both 2 sets of 15 with 1 min rest. That translated in doing my approx 25RPM for 2 sets of 15 with 1 min rest.

In the HST template the weight is NOT geared to my 25RPM or "2x15/1min rest RPM" but my 15RPM.
So getting in 2 sets with short rest-especially near the end of the cycle is just not possible:

Compare your 2x5RPM with 4 min rest with your 5RPM. Quite close isn it?
Compare your 2x15 1min rest RPM with your 15RPM. Quite apart isn it?

The longer the rest get and the shorter the reps get the less fatigue you generate and the easier you can repeat the weight in the following sets.

Thats why its necessary to minimize fatigue. Be it longer rest, cluster,drop of reps or Dan Moores Max Stim.

And keeping the reps high,the rest periods short AND raise the weight is a difficult way to do that.

If you mean "SPUR UP"- this could be managed with supersetting (antagonstic) .

Hope i expressed it better this time.
 
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I don't mean "spur up", I mean man up, balls up, find your fortitude or whatever else you want to call it.

Again, you're confusing the effects felt in an intra-workout context with actual fatigue. You are not getting fatigue from 2 weeks of exercise and you are not generating fatigue in the middle of a workout.

You shouldn't need a 3min rest to do two sets of 15RM. 2min should be plenty for non squat/deadlift exercises.

It's also not accurate to describe 2x15RM, 1 min rest between them as your 25RM. 60 seconds is a long time. Take 90, or 120. You shouldn't need 180seconds and the difference in performance across a 2min and 3min rest period for 15's and 15RM will be minimal.
 
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