Two issues i'm having atm

I

imported_hung

Guest
Into my second week of 15's atm and everythings going great apart form two things.

1. Did bent over barbell rows last night, didnt feel my lats workin at all? Not sure if im doing it right. I did exactly same way as http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
[EDIT] Relooked at the website, i was pulling the bar to my shoulder and not my waist. My bad heh. Adding to this though, i read somewhere that Bent over Rows were THE best exercise to hit the lats? Something like 83%. I think it was on bodybuilding .com [Confirm/Deny?]

2. My lower bak is killing me right now. Not sure if it's because i'm sleeping wrong or anything. Or might be from the bent over rows. Either way i can barely lean forward =(

Any input is appreciated.
 
try not to round your back next time
Perhaps this movement
"Extension in lying"[Lie prone on the floor or a mat (don´t do this exercise in bed) and with your hands beside your shoulders as if you were to do a push-up. Relax your low back and buttocks and press up on the hands while the pelvis remains in contact with the floor.] which is suggested to me by a physio could help you relieve.Try to google Extension in lying for additional information
 
Some guys do them more upright, to save the back. The only problem here is that it transfers the load to the traps, rear delts area, and off the lats. It's really not a lat exersize anyway IMO, unless you're really flat.
I was hurting a bit from heavy cable rows, so built my T-bar machine and it's been great, but has the same problem: no lat involvement, all upper back.
I'll be back to pullups next cycle to get my lats back, but still working rows for all else.
 
Well i havent tried th grip of pullups wher it'll work lats
But i doubt i can do 15 -_-.

No idea what i should do instaed of rows
 
Hung

Most likely you have rounded your back as pointed out resulting in extreme stress to that area.

You have to imagine that you have swallowed a broomstick and make your back absolutely ramrod straight, it helps to bend the knees as per the exrx website.

Lats, no sir...moer upperback, lats can be done with weighted pull ups or chinups.

check - Weighted underhand chinup

and Seated Cable Row

Alternate these two.
 
Fausto, not to really disagree w/ you here, but the DanJohn video had supplanted the idea that the arched back was to be used for all pulling movements as I recall. I just don't have an hour to spare to watch it again (for the 3rd time)!
One thing for sure though; ANY rows with a rounded back will put all the force on the spine. I think it's a good methodology for virtually all weightlifting exersizes to stick the chest out. Right now I can't think of one that requires rounding the back.
 
<div>
(hung @ Mar. 12 2007,20:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Adding to this though, i read somewhere that Bent over Rows were THE best exercise to hit the lats? Something like 83%. I think it was on bodybuilding .com [Confirm/Deny?]</div>
I think you are referring to this. I copied this from bodybuilding.com one time and I don't know who posted it

I wish they would have listed chins on here.

CHEST
Pectoralis Major % iemg MAX
Decline dumbell bench press 93
Decline bench press (olympic) 89
Push-ups between benches 88
Flat dumbell bench press 87
Flat bench press 85
Flat dumbell flys 84

Pectoralis Minor % iemg MAX
Incline dumbell bench press 91
Incline bench press (olympic) 85
Incline dumbell flys 83
Incline bench press (Smith) 81

SHOULDERS
Medial Deltoids % iemg MAX
Incline dumbell side laterals 66
Standing dumbell side laterals 63
Seated dumbell side laterals 62
Cable side laterals 47

Posterior Deltoids % iemg MAX
Standing dumbell bent laterals 85
Seated dumbell side laterals 83
Standing cable bent laterals 77

Anterior Deltoids % iemg MAX
Seated Front Dumbell Press 79
Standing Front Dumbell Raises 73
Seated Front Barbell Press 61

BACK
Latissimus Dorsi % iemg MAX
Bent over barbell rows 93
One arm dumbell rows 91
T-bar rows 89
Lat pulldowns (front) 86
Seated pulley rows 83

BICEPS
Biceps Brachii (long head) % iemg MAX
Biceps Preacher Curls (Olympic Bar) 90
Incline Seated Dumbell Curls (Alternate) 88
Standing Biceps Curl (Olympic Bar/Narrow Grip) 86
Standing Dumbell Curls (Alternate) 84
Concentration Dumbell Curls 80
Standing Biceps Curls (Olympic Bar/Wide Grip) 63
Standing E-Z Biceps Curls (Wide Grip) 61

TRICEPS
Triceps Brachii (outer head) % iemg MAX
Decline Triceps Extensions (Olympic Bar) 92
Triceps Pressdowns (Angled Bar) 90
Triceps Dip Between Benches 87
One-Arm Cable Triceps Extensions (Reverse Grip) 85
Overhead Rope Triceps Extensions 84
Seated One-Arm Dumbell Triceps Extensions (neutral grip) 82
Close-Grip Bench Press (Olympic Bar) 72

LEGS
Rectus Femoris (Quadriceps) % iemg MAX
Safety Squats (90 Degree Angle, Shoulder-Width Stance) 88
Seated Leg Extensions (Toes Straight) 86
Hack Squats (90 Degree Angle, Shoulder-Width Stance) 78
Leg Press (110 Degree Angle) 76
Smith Machine Squats (90 Degree Angle, Shoulder-Width Stance) 60

Biceps Femoris % iemg MAX
Standing leg curls 82
Lying leg curls 71
Seated leg curls 58
Modified hamstring deadlift 56

Semitendinosus % iemg MAX
Seated leg curls 88
Standing leg curls 79
Lying leg curls 70
Modified hamstring deadlift 63

Gastrocnemius % iemg MAX
Donkey calf raises 80
Standing one leg calf raises 79
Standing two leg calf raises 68
Seated calf raises 61
 
<div>
(hung @ Mar. 12 2007,20:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Into my second week of 15's atm and everythings going great apart form two things.

1. Did bent over barbell rows last night, didnt feel my lats workin at all? Not sure if im doing it right. I did exactly same way as http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
[EDIT] Relooked at the website, i was pulling the bar to my shoulder and not my waist. My bad heh. Adding to this though, i read  somewhere that Bent over Rows were THE best exercise to hit the lats? Something like 83%. I think it  was on bodybuilding .com [Confirm/Deny?]

2. My lower bak is killing me right now. Not sure if it's because i'm sleeping wrong or anything. Or might be from the bent over rows. Either way i can barely lean forward =(

Any input is appreciated.</div>
Bent over rows are generally used for back thickness, not lat width. Chin ups using a fairly narrow grip are great for lat width, as well as seated rows using a narrow grip
 
Like others pointed out, bentover rows don't do a whole lot for your lats. If you do them with an underhanded grip and pull to the navel, they do tend to hit the lats a bit, but the king of lats is weighted chins/pullups with an underhand, narrow grip. Seated rows might be good, I've never tried them but a lot of guys say they are great.
 
I disagree somewhat. 95% of guys do barbell rows almost standing upright and then yes they don't hit the lats...however pendlay rows with the torso almost parallel to the floor hit the lats awesomely.

I also agree that chin-ups/pull-ups are the king of lat exercises!!!
 
I believe the only problems people have with bentover rows are due to erector weakness, assuming there is no injury to the spine. I do my rows at a 90 degree angle or very nearly 90 degree angle, and I don't have lower back problems... I do have lower back issues if I do them on the same day as deadlifts, but I just don't ever do that.
 
Just when we were all getting along so well you guys say something I strongly disagree with
biggrin.gif


In no way do I mean to disrespect anyones experiences or opinion , but NOTHING , and I do mean NOTHING, hits MY lats like BB rows. In fact they hit so well that I'm actually kinda shocked at all the responses to the contrary!?!?! Nothing against pull/chin ups they hit it too, but no where near as hard as heavy BB rows.

I can only conclude that effectiveness varies according to individual .Perhaps variables like limb and torso length/proportion and form influence the potency of this movement more than I would have imagined. Am I alone here or does anyone else find that a good limb ripping set of BB rows blasts lats like nothing else?
 
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(RUSS @ Mar. 14 2007,01:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Am I alone here or does anyone else find that a good limb ripping set of BB rows blasts lats like nothing else?

Naw, youre not alone. Barbell Rows (done in a 45°-fashion) hit my lats the hardest, no matter what one say about chins and pull ups.</div>
biggrin.gif
 
I agree, read my last post again...
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">pendlay rows with the torso almost parallel to the floor hit the lats awesomely.</div>
 
<div>
(hung @ Mar. 13 2007,01:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Into my second week of 15's atm and everythings going great apart form two things.

1. Did bent over barbell rows last night, didnt feel my lats workin at all? Not sure if im doing it right. I did exactly same way as http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
[EDIT] Relooked at the website, i was pulling the bar to my shoulder and not my waist. My bad heh. Adding to this though, i read  somewhere that Bent over Rows were THE best exercise to hit the lats? Something like 83%. I think it  was on bodybuilding .com [Confirm/Deny?]

2. My lower bak is killing me right now. Not sure if it's because i'm sleeping wrong or anything. Or might be from the bent over rows. Either way i can barely lean forward =(

Any input is appreciated.</div>
i do them like the video but i keep my back straight and in the same position ie i dont touch the floor with the weight like that guy,i used to and it gave me trouble now it doesnt.
 
IMO the BB row hits the lat one way, with emphasis to the upper central part (thickness) and pullups hit the lats to the bottom and outside (width).

One reason many (like me) can't get a lot of lat involvement in BB rows or Pendlay is due to lower weights used due to back pain or weakness. I can pull way more in the T-bar than free because of that, but T-bar doesn't hit lats at all, so it is what it is, an upper back movement.
 
Mm, didn't realise my post grew so quick heh. Just quickly absorbing all the information.

I've gathered that you guys are divided as to which exercise (BBrows/Chinups) work the lats more.

Right now i'm REALLY want to work the lats for that legendary V shape. My chest, shoulders, arms and all are developing great and to my liking. However i look sort of odd without the V shape =(. So i'm looking for an exercise that will achieve this.

Also with the BBRow, on ExRx they use an overhand grip, while on Faz's link they use and underhand grip?

Also noticed that ExRx lets the weight touch the ground while Faz's doesnt.

Does this make a difference?
Does back angle make a difference?
 
I do dumbell rows, my back usually is between parallel and 30 degrees. I alternate these with pullups. Ive noticed lat developement, believe it or not.


hung
I gotta say this. If your not doing pullups now, start. If your grip is weak, use lifting straps. If you cant pull yourself up for more than one rep, either keep doing one rep till you meet your desired total reps, or get a buddy to give you a boost.
Not only will you improve your back developement, you rear delts and biceps and in time your forearms(primarily strength of) will improve greatly.
I spent many many years overlooking this movement, and boy do I wish I woulda done them sooner, lat pulldowns/rows, nothing IMO can replace this movement.
Im done...carry on. haha
biggrin.gif
 
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