Two issues i'm having atm

Just rebrowsing ExRx, noticed that Chin ups and pullups are slightly different. Adding to that the various hand grips and having the bar infront or behind your head. Mind boggling it is~

From pure assumption, i'd think that the widest possible grip without restriction range of motion would be best for gaining width. With that, youd have to use the overhand grip right?

Also on my pullup/chin up bar its a straight bar with slight angles at the ends.

Should i be using the horizontal parts or the angled?
 
wrong...wide grip works more the mid-lower trapezius and teres major. To hit the lats with a heavy load do shoulder-width grip, I prefer underhanded to get the biceps to help with the load.
 
one more thing...rows can be great for back width also. But most guys can't go heavy and strict enough to hit the lats hard with barbell rows. (except maybe leigelord!
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) I have found heavy dumbell rows hit the lats very directly and add width.
 
So basically stick to 1-arm db rows until you get strong enough to lift more weight? correct?

i did barbell rows last night for the first time and I guess I felt more of a work out overall in my back. when I do 1-arm db rows I don't necessarily feel it anywhere. i don't think I can feel my lats yet.
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i guess maybe when i put some muscle there will i be able to feel them.
 
I've been in a long and involved thread on grip width for pulldowns, chins and variants. The conclusions reached were basically explained by noting the position of the humerus bone in relation to the different grips. With the mythical wide grip (the one most people hear is for 'width') leaves the humerus straight out to the sides. To do a narrow grip, you have to extend the humerus upward , pulling the lats up into a longer ROM, and a different angle of attack in the beginning of the movement.
As you do your pull, the humerus moves through the extra plus the prior ROM, accomplishing almost the same thing, but more.
I say 'almost' because there is a slight difference in the position of the elbows, narrow grip requiring them to be slightly more forward. But that is a good thing for involving the upper lat.
I've tried DB rows, but to involve the lats...well, let's just say my 120's ain't gonna git it! (that's the biggest I have here)
 
Hmm so shoulder width grip pullup/chinups?

So to incorporate them into my routine. Aim for 2 sets of 15 reps? And so forth for the 10's and 5's?
 
for bent-over-rows IMO dont go parrallel to the floor with your back, inbetween parrallel and straight up (dont know angles) will allow you to use more weight and put less strain on your back (try it quadman) pull to your waist use what grip you feel is best for you.

as far as wide grip or narrow grip chins/pullups think like this.

hold your hands above your head now shoulder width apart you wont feel a pull on your lats,
now try touching your hands together you will feel the pull so IMO close grip is better for load and stretch.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Mar. 14 2007,23:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> I have found heavy dumbell rows hit the lats very directly and add width.</div>
Are you sure, cause that would mean your agreeing with me.
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(quadancer @ Mar. 15 2007,05:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've tried DB rows, but to involve the lats...well, let's just say my 120's ain't gonna git it! (that's the biggest I have here)</div>
Use more weight.
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For me to really target the lats with dumbell rows. I grab both dumbells and basically perform a pendelay row. Have you tried that?


Ive done them one side at a time as well, just depends on how my lower back is doing.
 
Hmm just reading's faz's post. So touch my hands together and do pullup? i thought that would hit my forearms cause i've seen that exercise in a vid somewhere.
 
Faz, you just repeated what I said in post #3 and #18 of this thread. And then again in my last post that you answered!

Need, you're not reading either. I'd said that bent over rows were limited for many of us, especially with back problems. And since my biggest DB is 120, I don't do the singles, although I did come up with a method a while back of using one end of a bar, weighted like a T-bar, and weighing down the other end to keep it from coming up. I just prefer the real-world results of the pullups, wide and narrow. (see avatar)

Hung: all the way together may be a bit too much, depending on your physiology. And you hit the lats by pulling out , not up , in the beginning of the movement. Lats are all about the humerus bone movement for the most part.
 
lol...what a mess

Just try to put your lats in pain, and then pay attention to what is causing it.  When I found out that chin ups caused some slight soreness in my lats, I tore the crap out of that exercise, working up to the point where I could do almost bw + 200 lbs.  No one told me to do this, I just recognized soreness and went with it.   I haven't done this exercise in a long time now, and sure enough my lats are shrinking.  

I can pull heavy weight using the strictest form possible on bent over rows and they do not make my lats remotely sore.  Maybe you're different---just listen to your body.  You might learn what works for you faster by heeding to quad's advice concerning the positioning of the humerus when you try to exercise the lats, but don't stop there if those types of exercises don't work for you.
 
With BB rows-unless there is a previous injury, the lower back strengthens itself and stops feeling like the focus of the movement very quickly(2-3 wks IMHO and experience). I went about it by utilizing 10x3's until I was well past the &quot;hump&quot; (10 setsx3reps just to be clear).I was able to maintain proper angle and execute complete reps in away that (when new to the movement) I couldn't using a higher rep scheme. Also the load possible in a 3 is almost staggering in comparison to what a lifter would be using in say a 10 or 12, and because of this, strength gains came in leaps and bounds.


Currently (on a good day), I can and do row more than my bodyweight with precise form and with steady controlled movement (no jerking or &quot;almost completed reps). With less than perfect form , altering the angle to a more &quot;Dorian Yates approved&quot; (did anyone get that there's a joke there?) pitch I can go substantially higher almost to completion for a pointless for anything but ego single rep.


This is not to brag, but to show that my experience with breaking thru the initial lower back &quot;feel&quot; may have some value- I only do 4 exersizes (bench, military press, BB row, deadlift) so I take each one very seriously as I can't afford not to.



A back built on JUST pull ups/pulldowns seems flat and &quot;hollow&quot; to me, no matter how wide; obviously the best bet would be to do both rows and a pull.But if like me you are doing a &quot;simple&quot; (LOL!) routine, and are picking from the two , IMHO- rows are capable of developing width just as well while giving a full ,thick, and powerfull look to the entire back.


Let me end by saying that i'll be 40 yrs old this year, Quad (IMHO one of the most inspiring posters here), has 13 yrs on me , when I'm 53 I very well might not be so enthusiastic about rowing either, depending on how my back weathers the almost decade and a half to come!!!
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From the looks of his avatar whatever he IS doing is working just fine!
 
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(stevejones @ Mar. 15 2007,11:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">lol...what a mess

Just try to put your lats in pain, and then pay attention to what is causing it.  When I found out that chin ups caused some slight soreness in my lats, I tore the crap out of that exercise, working up to the point where I could do almost bw + 200 lbs.  No one told me to do this, I just recognized soreness and went with it.   I haven't done this exercise in a long time now, and sure enough my lats are shrinking.  

I can pull heavy weight using the strictest form possible on bent over rows and they do not make my lats remotely sore.  Maybe you're different---just listen to your body.  You might learn what works for you faster by heeding to quad's advice concerning the positioning of the humerus when you try to exercise the lats, but don't stop there if those types of exercises don't work for you.</div>
well said
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I did have to learn to pull with my shoulder blades and elbows (mentally) in order to feel it where I am targeting at first; now i do it without having to consciously think about it.
 
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(hung @ Mar. 15 2007,14:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hmm just reading's faz's post. So touch my hands together and do pullup? i thought that would hit my forearms cause i've seen that exercise in a vid somewhere.</div>
i meant while your sat at the computer try it to prove that close grip hits the lats better than wide grip.
 
Well tried to do pull/chinups towards the end of my workout. Couldn't even manage one =\

Perhaps i should do them at the beginning since they seem like an all body or atleast compound exercise.
 
Can't agree with all the chin worshippers here. I'm with Russ on this one.

I've done them for yonks and they've never really worked for me. It's far more a forearms and shoulder exercise. If you want to hit the lats you have to ensure the angle is correct. You want to bring the weight to your chest or middle from at least 45degrees. Chins just don't do that and I've never felt a burn in my lats with them, but most definitely have with lat pull downs (blasphemy I know) and barbell rows.

Ready for more blasphemy..................chins are overated!
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ready for more blasphemy..................chins are overated! </div>

Not so sir!Crucify him!
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Chins are the king of lat exercises, 99% of us will testify to that!
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Ok, now for some interesting stuff, the other day I was trying out variants of the weighted chin ups, after being miffed at weights hanging from me and chaffing away at my waist.

So what to do...eureka...I tried to clip the low row cable to my belt, (I do chins on a machine that has both low and high cable attachments) and man...did that feel good...constant tension, reduced chaffing, no weights between my legs...makes me think of a spanish word the chilleans like to use....&quot;pelotudo&quot;
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Just thought I'd share it.
 
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