UD 2.0 with HST

Could I get a quick summary of a week on UD2.0?

From what I gather, the diet follows:

Day 1-3: <50 gr carbs
Day 4: <50 gr carbs until workout, then carb load
Day 5: continue carb load
Day 6-7: carb load in the AM, then go back to <50 gr carb

Could I do an HST routine with this diet?
 
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(colby2152 @ Oct. 23 2008,5:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Could I get a quick summary of a week on UD2.0?

From what I gather, the diet follows:

Day 1-3: &lt;50 gr carbs
Day 4: &lt;50 gr carbs until workout, then carb load
Day 5: continue carb load
Day 6-7: carb load in the AM, then go back to &lt;50 gr carb

Could I do an HST routine with this diet?</div>
That's pretty much it except that for Days 6 and 7 you eat with standard type bb macros. Day 7 you can start to lower carbs towards the end of the day so that you are getting ready for the next weekly cycle's low carb start.

Carbs don't have to drop as low as 50g. Ketosis is not the aim of the low carb days and keeping some carbs around can be a good thing. I try to keep to 75g or under which is easily doable (today I'll be at around 40g up to when the carb load begins).

Lyle goes into a shed load of detail in his UD2 booklet and I think it's worth getting for the dietary science lesson alone.

I guess you could do a hybrid HST routine: 15s on Mon (&amp; repeat Tues), 10s on Thurs, 5s on Sat and increment loads for each rep range each week. My only worry would be that you wouldn't want to be using sub max loads for too long while cutting back hard on cals. I think for Mon and Tues workouts I'd use loads calculated for the start of the second week of 15s and stick with those for about 6 weeks. For the 10s and 5s I'd use loads calculated for the start of the second week of each respective mesocycle and then increment if possible each week.

Also, you'd probably need to up the volume for the Mon and Tues workouts compared to a standard HST cycle for the sake of glycogen depletion.

The thing is, HST is really designed for growth and in all honesty most folks who are conditioned to training are not going to be adding much lean mass (if any) while losing body fat. Even though UD2 is a recomp diet, Lyle is pretty clear that you will lose some muscle if you are trying to drop to lower body fat levels (ie. &lt;10%). You could use UD2 for gaining too but I'd prefer to do a standard HST cycle for that.
 
if truely interested, id get the book and see what you think. i believe the w/o's as written would be the best way to go for your 1st round since it is a w/o and diet regime. no real way of planning/gauging your progress with whats expected/outlined if you never really followed what was prescribed in the 1st place.

once youve done a cycle and know whats going on and what to expect then youll be in LOLs shoes and could modify/substitute etc.

from my exper. and the BR forums, without exception, the folks who make little or no progress with ud2.0 are the ones who felt the need to change either the w/o or diet somehow right out of the gate...........and then wrote in looking for answers as to why it wasnt going as expected.

the plan works. its neither easy or overly hard but much like HST you have to get the hang of what its really all about first before you can tweak it with much success.

good luck.
 
Yeah I really wouldn't try to change the WO's with UD2.0

And they already are HST workouts in essence, with specific and necessary volume prescriptions that undulate on a weekly basis to facilitate partitioning effects.
 
I would stick with the UD plan as previously posted- I considered making variations at the initial onset too- but trust the other's here when they say to buy the book and stick too the plan...I am still seeing great results and plan on no modes on UD cycles 3, 4 which will lead me well into next year.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Oct. 23 2008,12:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(colby2152 @ Oct. 23 2008,5:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Could I get a quick summary of a week on UD2.0?

From what I gather, the diet follows:

Day 1-3: &lt;50 gr carbs
Day 4: &lt;50 gr carbs until workout, then carb load
Day 5: continue carb load
Day 6-7: carb load in the AM, then go back to &lt;50 gr carb

Could I do an HST routine with this diet?</div>
That's pretty much it except that for Days 6 and 7 you eat with standard type bb macros. Day 7 you can start to lower carbs towards the end of the day so that you are getting ready for the next weekly cycle's low carb start.

Carbs don't have to drop as low as 50g. Ketosis is not the aim of the low carb days and keeping some carbs around can be a good thing. I try to keep to 75g or under which is easily doable (today I'll be at around 40g up to when the carb load begins).

Lyle goes into a shed load of detail in his UD2 booklet and I think it's worth getting for the dietary science lesson alone.

I guess you could do a hybrid HST routine: 15s on Mon (&amp; repeat Tues), 10s on Thurs, 5s on Sat and increment loads for each rep range each week. My only worry would be that you wouldn't want to be using sub max loads for too long while cutting back hard on cals. I think for Mon and Tues workouts I'd use loads calculated for the start of the second week of 15s and stick with those for about 6 weeks. For the 10s and 5s I'd use loads calculated for the start of the second week of each respective mesocycle and then increment if possible each week.

Also, you'd probably need to up the volume for the Mon and Tues workouts compared to a standard HST cycle for the sake of glycogen depletion.

The thing is, HST is really designed for growth and in all honesty most folks who are conditioned to training are not going to be adding much lean mass (if any) while losing body fat. Even though UD2 is a recomp diet, Lyle is pretty clear that you will lose some muscle if you are trying to drop to lower body fat levels (ie. &lt;10%). You could use UD2 for gaining too but I'd prefer to do a standard HST cycle for that.</div>
LOL, redfury, nkl, beingisbeing and others:

I am considering a hybrid HST/UD 2.0 routine for my next cycle. It'll still be an HST cycle due to progressive load (zig-zagging present of course), full body routine and SD.

I would conveniently set the carb loads on to the weekends...

Monday: Carb load in AM only
Tuesday: Low Carb
Wednesday: Low Carb
Thursday: Low Carb
Friday: Carb load in PM only
Saturday: Carb load all day
Sunday: Carb load in AM only

If I give myself 3-4 workouts per week based on the 15's (if 4 workouts are done), 10's, 5's and 3's, then where do I place these workouts? I was thinking 15's on Tuesday, 10's on Wednesday, 5's on Friday and 3's on Sunday. I would start the 15's and 10's no less than 85% of my RM.

Also, what should my caloric balance (intake - expenditure) be each day? Are calories cycled/waved or is consistently a net cut each day?
 
ud 2.0 is a diet and w/o program. the hi-rep w/os are designed to deplete glyc. in harmony with the low carb portion of the diet and then transition into heavier w/os and carb loading later in the same week.

if your not going deplete with the w/os....no real need to follow the strict low carb portion. same goes for the carb up. if your not really depleted...no real need to carb load.

if your intriqued by ud 2.0, get the book and give it a shot. if your really sold on hst i think it can def. be effective for cutting (it really comes down to diet) but, imo, they really dont go together as a diet/w/o combo.

honestly, after many yrs of gaining, cutting......success and failure it really seem to come down to just a couple things in my book.

for cutting and keeping most of your mass

keep it heavy (prog. load up to 5s and stay as long as you can)
basic compounds with reasonable freq. (varies per person)
eat at measurable deficit but not a huge one.
take your cal deficit out of carbs 1st (most have plenty to spare), bad fats (keep the good ones) and protein last if at all.
lastly, time, patience and genetics (p-ratio) will dictate how well it all goes.

pick an eating and lifting style/freq. you like (that fits your goals and is realistic) and one you can stick with and you should see results.

good luck
 
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(bluejacket @ Dec. 20 2008,2:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ud 2.0 is a diet and w/o program. the hi-rep w/os are designed to deplete glyc. in harmony with the low carb portion of the diet and then transition into heavier w/os and carb loading later in the same week.</div>
Someone please verify...the carb loading/depletion cycle is to assure burning of fat.  Once we reach ketosis, beta oxidation ceases, correct?
 
BlueJacket has really summed things up very well.

Ketosis is not the goal of UD2.0 at any point - although you obviously could drop carbs low enough during the four depletion days and bring on ketosis. However, Lyle points out a few reasons why this is not optimal while on UD2. But, yes, basically, the four depletion days are the fat burning days.

If you want to do UD2 you really have to do it as it is designed; diet and workout plan. Lyle has put a lot of thought into it so why mess with it? Without several depletion workouts on low carb days you won't deplete glycogen enough to warrant a carb load of the kind that you do on UD2 (~6g/lb lean body weight).

If I was to do HST on a cutting cycle, I would either cycle 10s and 5s. Or, I might do one workout of 15s, one workout of 10s and one workout of 5s each week. I'd try to keep the 5s as heavy as I could but I'd probably cycle the intensity for 15s and 10s to give my CNS a chance to recover.

As far as macros go, BJ's guide is on the money - just adjust carbs and fats, and always maintain enough good fats (for EFAs) and take a decent multi-vit and mineral supp each day. I wouldn't recommend dropping protein lower than 1g/lb lean body weight whilst on a cut.
 
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