Why do I feel like this on 2nd day following HST

[Hardrock]

Quote[/b] (stealthboy @ Oct. 06 2005,10:08)]Legs are a killer for me too. They get worked a fair bit with everything else I do so I only train them once at the end of the week.
I also noticed you are doing 2x15 for each exercise. I iknow mentally its hard but if you dropped back to 1x15 for each exercise you would probably be fine for the 3xweek training

I started this cycle with the intention of doing 2 x 15 based on a suggestion from dkm. He suggested that I do 2 sets in the 15's to improve my conditioning but I don't think that's doable for legs. I only did 1 set of squats during yesterday's workout and I don't feel it as bad today. I'm hoping that's the solution. I think another problem is that when I set up the poundages for this cycle I didn't account for the fact that the extra set would necessitate slightly lower weights. I'm also going to make sure that I stop a rep or two short of failure on the 2nd set on upper body instead of trying to force out the 15 reps.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Quote[/b] (9to5lifter @ Oct. 06 2005,3:36)]thecoffeeguy,
The first thing that comes to mind is volume. The 15's are taxing, and multiple sets may just be too much. However, if you know you can handle the volume (e.g. from a previous cycle), then the most likely reason is nutrition (not enough calories, usually from carbohydrates).

After I felt pretty bad on Wednesday (after my Tuesday workout), I took a step back and reviewed my week, including diet, excersise, workout and work.

I came to this conclusion:

1.) I wasn't eating nearly enough. After pouring over the internet for awhile and "catching up" on all the changes, I realized im eating like a bird. I need to eat between 3000-3800 calories. I've upped my calories since and now im trying to strike a good balance of carbs, protein, fats and calories.

2.) I have been really busy at work and that played a HUGE factor into my fatigue.

3.) I think I need to alter my routine a bit and drop a few excersises, maybe even some sets.

4.) I was working on finding my 15, 10 and 5 RM and this was my second week of doing that. I think the back to back weeks of adjusting weights and working out hard was very tough. I think when I start my HST cycle in 14 days, I should be fully rested, energized and ready. I think it will take some play in adjusting the routine, but we shall see.

5.) Working out too late. I was finishing my workouts around 7pm. What I noticed (especially after the 15's) is that I felt wired for a good portion of the evening and it was very difficult to fall asleep. I did some research and I definitely need to workout earlier in the day so my body can recover and I can fall asleep much faster.

That's about it. I have a lot of adjustments to do, but I think im on the right track.

I'm trying to keep as detailed logs as I can on everything in hopes of narrowing down my areas of need.

Here is what I was doing each workout:

2xsquats
1xstiff legged deadlifts
2xinclince bench
1xflat bench
2xbarbell rows
2xpull downs
1xshrugs
2xmilitary press
1xlateral raise
2xbicep curls
2xoverhead tricep extension
2xcalves
2xabs

I was thinking of adjusting to this:

2xsquats
2xincline bench
2xbarbell rows
1xpull downs
1xmilitary press
2xbicep curl
2xoverhead tri ext
2xcalve
2xabs

Anyone have input? I thought i'd give it a shot, see how i feel.

Jason

 

[thehamma]

Quote[/b] ]I was thinking of adjusting to this:

2xsquats
2xincline bench
2xbarbell rows
1xpull downs
1xmilitary press
2xbicep curl
2xoverhead tri ext
2xcalve
2xabs

I think that looks pretty good, it's a lot similar to my setup. I did mine on mon, wed, fri. The sets look good, but I wouldn't stress over the number of sets. I have found that when I play it by ear as far as sets is concerned I get best results. If I'm feeling really energetic and motivated I'll do 2 or 3 sets. Sometimes if I feel like I'm slowing down and fatigue is setting in, I'll reduce my sets to 1 for a week or two. If you are experienced in the gym you usually can feel when you are approaching a plateau. Your routine in my opinion looks great and you should see some great results.

thehamma

 

[Hardrock]

Quote[/b] (Hardrock @ Oct. 06 2005,7:37)]

Quote[/b] (SDMuscle @ Oct. 05 2005,2:27)]

I've noticed that I always start to feel sh*tty on the 2nd day following an HST 3 x per week full body workout, just when I'm suppose to be doing the next workout. What's up with that? Is it the accumulation of metabolic waste? Does it mean I should start putting an extra day between workouts, and, if so, how will that affect my gains?

Well, the obvious question is what do you mean by sh*tty? If you mean that you feel fatigued to the point of being too tired to do your regular daily routine, then my guess is you are overtaxing your CNS by either doing too many sets/exercises in the gym, pushing to failure or beyond, not getting enough rest between sets, or not getting enough sleep. You may not have your diet quite right either.
If you mean that your muscles/joints are too sore, then either this is a good thing and you aren't accepting this as a sign that what you're doing is working - delayed onset soreness is expected and covered in some of the articles on this site - or same as above and you are doing too many sets. Could be caused by poor exercise form too.

The feeling I have is hard to describe but I feel tired, slightly nauseous, a dull pressure sensation in my head (not a headache though), and my legs feel kind of "heavy". The fatigue is nothing severe enough to prevent daily activities, I just don't have any energy. Maybe it's diet, I don't know. I keep a food log (Fitday) and I average about 2700 to 3000 cals a day on workout days which is slightly below maintenance to maintenance as I am trying to drop bodyfat. I usually don't keep as close a track of calories on non-workout days and probably get less than 2700 cals. Maybe I need to do a better job of tracking cals on these days since they are recovery days. As for number of exercises, sets, rest, etc. I am only doing compounds this cycle (7 exercises), 2 x 15, with 30 secs to 1 minute rest.
this describes what I've been experiencing- overreaching:
"Vigorous training, followed by recovery, is essential for improving athletic performance. Some level of fatigue, depression, feelings of burnout, anxiety, irritability, and difficulty concentrating or sleeping is normal for athletes undergoing heavy training or competition. Athletes may also experience persistent muscle soreness, decreased coordination, reduced libido, and frequent upper respiratory infections. This training state is termed "overreaching" and is an expected part of vigorous training."

I apparently have been "overreaching" by attempting too many sets. I went back to my first cycle log notes and saw where I finished the cycle with only minor fatigue issues, but that was because I had the noobie "more is better" mindset and had too many exercises due to adding isolations for every major body part. I know better now and will drop back to 1 set on compounds.

 

[Hardrock]

Eureka- I may have finally found the answer to this puzzle, and the culprit is, of all things........caffeine!!!! I had been taking 300mg of caffeine anhydrous prior to working out. I stopped taking it and now I don't get the fatigued, leg-heavy, sick feeling I experienced before. I don't know how this affected me- must be something to do with accumulated adrenal fatigue from a combination of the workout and stimulant. Would be interested if anyone else has experienced this?!

 

[faz]

drop weights to 2x a week..and add some more cardio to get your fitness levels up..say 3x a week cardio..also get your t levels checked..if their low there is plenty of suppliments available over the counter..good luck