Why the sudden drop?

[Ironman]

I was just wondering why the program is designed to drop from 10RM for 2 weeks, all the way to 5RM for 4 weeks (if you opt not to do negatives)?
I would think that a more progressive..err..progression would be 2 weeks of 15s, 2 weeks of 10s, then 2 weeks of 8s, and finally, 2 weeks of 5s. Besides, to my knowledge 5's are more aimed at building strength than size but work very well towards hypertrophy becouse of the increased load when done for a brief period.
Im not criticizing the program, just being a good skepitc..and as any good skeptic would, ask to be proven wrong.

 

[liegelord]

I'm certainly no expert, only going by what I have read and from experience (4 cycles worth).

The increased load does cause the microtrauma for hypertrophy. It is also recommended that a higher rep set (8-12) be done after the 5 rep set(s) for metabolic stimulation. I know from experience that after a few cycles you will probably need the high rep set for growth.

The increased load during the negatives, in my experience, can stimulate the most growth of the cycle.

 

[jvroig]

Hello

Quote[/b] ]I was just wondering why the program is designed to drop from 10RM for 2 weeks, all the way to 5RM for 4 weeks (if you opt not to do negatives)?

That's just to accomodate the increase in load. The inverse relationship between load and volume dictate that, as the load increases, the volume decreases. Since we are increasing the load, we also decrease the volume.

Quote[/b] ] I would think that a more progressive..err..progression would be 2 weeks of 15s, 2 weeks of 10s, then 2 weeks of 8s, and finally, 2 weeks of 5s.

Yes, you can do that. 15, 10 and 5 are merely simplifications that Bryan did in order to make HST simpler to understand. You can make the rep scheme whatever you want as long as you follow a progression of load and therefore also a steady decrease in reps per set to accomodate the increase in load.
For example, you can do 15,12,10,8,5,3, and that would be perfectly ok.

Quote[/b] ]Besides, to my knowledge 5's are more aimed at building strength than size but work very well towards hypertrophy becouse of the increased load when done for a brief period.

and

Quote[/b] ]The increased load during the negatives, in my experience, can stimulate the most growth of the cycle.

As already mentioned in the HST FAQs, if you actually are able to do everything right (stressing in particular the diet), then gains will mostly be equal all throughout the cycle. If you don't see enough gains in the early high-rep sets (15s and 10s), it may be because you are not eating enough or have not done enough SD, or a combination of both.

Quote[/b] ]Im not criticizing the program, just being a good skepitc..and as any good skeptic would, ask to be proven wrong.

Good attitude. Nobody expects anybody here to just follow blindly. We encourage everyone to seek the truth for themselves and understand it before following it.

Regards
-JV

 

[Fausto]

JV has covered your question in style as usual with all bases covered!

FYI - many of us have used other variations, a very common one:

15/12/10/8/6/6/4/4

But there are some many others that you will have to come up with your own, but only if it will serve your purpose.

Grow and be happy!

 

[9to5lifter]

It seems to me that it would not be practical to find your maxes for 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 and 4 rep schemes. Do you use an estimation or do you just progressively increase the load and stop 1-2 reps short of failure? I am asking because I was thinking about doing a cycle using larger increments than usual and adjusting accordingly the reps.

 

[jvroig]

Hey guys

Quote[/b] ]It seems to me that it would not be practical to find your maxes for 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 and 4 rep schemes. Do you use an estimation or do you just progressively increase the load and stop 1-2 reps short of failure? I am asking because I was thinking about doing a cycle using larger increments than usual and adjusting accordingly the reps.

Yes, precisely, not practical at all to find rep maxes for so many varied rep schemes like that. There's a lot you can do to answer that need, depending on your level of experience. With enough experience, you generally can estimate it quite accurately (for example, using old HST cycles you did).

Or a simpler (and, in my personal opinion, more effective) way to do it would be simply to do clustering. Increment as you plan to do, then just figure out the total reps you want to do for each exercise. Then you can do as many sets as needed in order to accomplish the total number of reps for that exercise. Of course, still try to have a target "reps per set", but you don't have to stick to it so much if you can't do it.

For example, I incremented 15 pounds, then for one workout I'm not exactly sure how many I can do per set because I just estimated this to be something around my 8RM. I determined that I want to do 20 reps. So I try to do 8 reps on the first set, but I stop at 7 because I feel I'm close to failure already. So I stop, breathe, then manage to crank out 6 more reps. Stop again, breathe, then crank out 4 more reps. Stop again, breathe, then finish of the last set with 3 reps, and I got a total of 20 reps out of the given load.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
-JV

 

[Fausto]

9 to 5

Quote[/b] ]It seems to me that it would not be practical to find your maxes for 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 and 4 rep schemes.

I would rather have the 1RM's for all I want then use the desired rep scheme.

So that I could do this:

15 - 65%
12 - 70%
10 - 75%
8 - 80%
6 - 85% - then 90% for second week
4 - 95% then 100% for second week

A neat progression I'd say, and yes some zigging but then how important cabn that be in leau of nice progression?

 

[9to5lifter]

Thanks guys, maybe I'll try 15,12,10,8,6,4 combined with clustering, but only after I have done a few basic cycles. I'm still new to HST...

 

[Lance]

Quote[/b] (9to5lifter @ Aug. 08 2005,5:07)]Thanks guys, maybe I'll try 15,12,10,8,6,4 combined with clustering, but only after I have done a few basic cycles. I'm still new to HST...

Yeah it's basically the progressive load that matters, not specific rep ranges. In general though, the 15's can give some light growth, but at that light of weights it's minimal; growth isn't the 15's purpose.

I've been doing HST all heavy for a while now. I just like to get right into the heavy weights and they tend to give the best growth stimuli.

I start off in the 5's, and then go to the post 5's incrementing once weekly. If i was doing 1 set during the 5s, hence 5 reps, then during the post 5's i either use negatives or cluster reps with a rep goal of 5 reps.