Zone Contest
- Thread starter AShortt
- Start date
scientific muscle
New Member
scientific muscle
New Member
Ok, so you met 5 dudes in a bulgarian prison and they made your ass sore for days?
-This zone training thing sounds pretty sick, it is not for me.
-This zone training thing sounds pretty sick, it is not for me.
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(colby2152 @ Jan. 19 2007,18:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As regards talkin' shite - the last post was all factual; now who's talking shite?
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Asshort, DM was giving the facts about that thread. Have you come back with a more open mind?
By the way, welcome to the age of information where you can find what you need to know for free. By not telling us a technique like J-Reps, and charging us for a book, and expecting us to believe what is inside, how do you expect us to believe you? Also, when you start bashing other people as soon as you join, why would others believe you?</div>
Open no - Active always. I never started bashing anyone, you are the kids with the ASShort and such.
There is plenty of free info on the sight and the books are always available cheap on CD.
Regards,
Andrew
(colby2152 @ Jan. 19 2007,18:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As regards talkin' shite - the last post was all factual; now who's talking shite?
Asshort, DM was giving the facts about that thread. Have you come back with a more open mind?
By the way, welcome to the age of information where you can find what you need to know for free. By not telling us a technique like J-Reps, and charging us for a book, and expecting us to believe what is inside, how do you expect us to believe you? Also, when you start bashing other people as soon as you join, why would others believe you?</div>
Open no - Active always. I never started bashing anyone, you are the kids with the ASShort and such.
There is plenty of free info on the sight and the books are always available cheap on CD.
Regards,
Andrew
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(Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Jan. 20 2007,04:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If all of this wheel reinventing would go a way, a hyoooge step for mankind would be accomplished...most of everything has been already tried at some point when it comes to training, why the heck try to sell a very old thing with a fresh coat of paint(and not very good paint)?</div>
So HST is nothing, just a reinvention of the wheel? Why is there this sight or the HST method?
You folks are thinking of this as a pretty basic set/canned routine. A real method is not a limited bunch of steps/rules but guidelines for application. It takes theory and then relates it to experience and describes how to learn and use it. It goes well beyond 5 of 5 10 or 10 or whatever. It goes beyond removing things one hasn’t been able to use properly (like training to failure) and shows how it should and can be utilized under varied circumstances.
Anyone can come up with a variation on some sort of routine/cycle and post it for free.
Regards,
Andrew
(Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Jan. 20 2007,04:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If all of this wheel reinventing would go a way, a hyoooge step for mankind would be accomplished...most of everything has been already tried at some point when it comes to training, why the heck try to sell a very old thing with a fresh coat of paint(and not very good paint)?</div>
So HST is nothing, just a reinvention of the wheel? Why is there this sight or the HST method?
You folks are thinking of this as a pretty basic set/canned routine. A real method is not a limited bunch of steps/rules but guidelines for application. It takes theory and then relates it to experience and describes how to learn and use it. It goes well beyond 5 of 5 10 or 10 or whatever. It goes beyond removing things one hasn’t been able to use properly (like training to failure) and shows how it should and can be utilized under varied circumstances.
Anyone can come up with a variation on some sort of routine/cycle and post it for free.
Regards,
Andrew
<div>
(colby2152 @ Jan. 21 2007,10:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah, but how do you charge for information about a training method, glorify it, and expect people to believe you?</div>
So school text books should be free? What is with all this free stuff? The internet offers lots for free and you get what you pay for in most cases.
I don’t expect anyone to believe anything, think for yourself for goodness sake. Glorify? Well I do adore the method but I don't worship anything.
Order a book if you don’t like it send it back for a refund. Order a CD burn a copy and give out copies to friends. The heck with money we should all just run around naked and everything should be shared freely...lol. Back to the garden of Eden we go! ;^)
Regards,
Andrew
zone-training.net
(colby2152 @ Jan. 21 2007,10:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah, but how do you charge for information about a training method, glorify it, and expect people to believe you?</div>
So school text books should be free? What is with all this free stuff? The internet offers lots for free and you get what you pay for in most cases.
I don’t expect anyone to believe anything, think for yourself for goodness sake. Glorify? Well I do adore the method but I don't worship anything.
Order a book if you don’t like it send it back for a refund. Order a CD burn a copy and give out copies to friends. The heck with money we should all just run around naked and everything should be shared freely...lol. Back to the garden of Eden we go! ;^)
Regards,
Andrew
zone-training.net
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
If a book that teaches one how to do 21s...sorry, umm aaa, JReps, is in the same league as a school text book...Houston, we have a problem.
Then again, that Static Contraction Training(or whatever) Pete Sisco crap wasn`t free either AFAIR, and that`s one of the worst things ever to have greeted bodybuilding literature(and that achievement is impressive, considering other contenders)...it was even worse then Mentzer`s Heavy Duty Nutrition booklet
Then again, that Static Contraction Training(or whatever) Pete Sisco crap wasn`t free either AFAIR, and that`s one of the worst things ever to have greeted bodybuilding literature(and that achievement is impressive, considering other contenders)...it was even worse then Mentzer`s Heavy Duty Nutrition booklet
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
<div>
(AShortt @ Jan. 25 2007,11:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Jan. 20 2007,04:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If all of this wheel reinventing would go a way, a hyoooge step for mankind would be accomplished...most of everything has been already tried at some point when it comes to training, why the heck try to sell a very old thing with a fresh coat of paint(and not very good paint)?</div>
So HST is nothing, just a reinvention of the wheel? Why is there this sight or the HST method?
You folks are thinking of this as a pretty basic set/canned routine. A real method is not a limited bunch of steps/rules but guidelines for application. It takes theory and then relates it to experience and describes how to learn and use it. It goes well beyond 5 of 5 10 or 10 or whatever. It goes beyond removing things one hasn’t been able to use properly (like training to failure) and shows how it should and can be utilized under varied circumstances.
Anyone can come up with a variation on some sort of routine/cycle and post it for free.
Regards,
Andrew</div>
Help me out guys, is there anything in this post that makes any sense?
(AShortt @ Jan. 25 2007,11:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Jan. 20 2007,04:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If all of this wheel reinventing would go a way, a hyoooge step for mankind would be accomplished...most of everything has been already tried at some point when it comes to training, why the heck try to sell a very old thing with a fresh coat of paint(and not very good paint)?</div>
So HST is nothing, just a reinvention of the wheel? Why is there this sight or the HST method?
You folks are thinking of this as a pretty basic set/canned routine. A real method is not a limited bunch of steps/rules but guidelines for application. It takes theory and then relates it to experience and describes how to learn and use it. It goes well beyond 5 of 5 10 or 10 or whatever. It goes beyond removing things one hasn’t been able to use properly (like training to failure) and shows how it should and can be utilized under varied circumstances.
Anyone can come up with a variation on some sort of routine/cycle and post it for free.
Regards,
Andrew</div>
Help me out guys, is there anything in this post that makes any sense?
After looking over the Zone Training site, I have to say that there is much that seems derivative. The zone concept itself is not entirely original (besides what mikeynov mentions, see also powerlifting board presses), but I would have to explore further to determine if this is really some revolutionary new way of doing it. I am also not sure that the apparent approach to "the pump" and fatigue management is the best.
However, there is some interesting stuff as well and if mikeynov thinks it is worth a look, it may deserve at least some exploration. Fausto has also commented that he has made progress with jreps.
If you want to see where AShortt is coming from, he has some articles on the site:
Partial Reps
JReps Discussion
Exercise Methods (kinda an odd one)
I will note that this is presented mostly as a set of principles, so getting an exact handle on "the method" may be elusive.
I have no real opinion on this one way or the other, but I do think it serves everyone better to stop the trash talk (whoever started it) and let folks evaluate this for themselves. I'm not fond of methods that merely repackage old ideas and give them a fancy name and marketing campaign, but I don't yet know whether we can say this is the case with zone training. Obviously, however, Mr Johnston also hasn't done his cause any good by threatening folks with lawsuits for discussing his methods (and pissing everyone off).
However, there is some interesting stuff as well and if mikeynov thinks it is worth a look, it may deserve at least some exploration. Fausto has also commented that he has made progress with jreps.
If you want to see where AShortt is coming from, he has some articles on the site:
Partial Reps
JReps Discussion
Exercise Methods (kinda an odd one)
I will note that this is presented mostly as a set of principles, so getting an exact handle on "the method" may be elusive.
I have no real opinion on this one way or the other, but I do think it serves everyone better to stop the trash talk (whoever started it) and let folks evaluate this for themselves. I'm not fond of methods that merely repackage old ideas and give them a fancy name and marketing campaign, but I don't yet know whether we can say this is the case with zone training. Obviously, however, Mr Johnston also hasn't done his cause any good by threatening folks with lawsuits for discussing his methods (and pissing everyone off).
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2. You achieve muscular fatigue or near fatigue 2-3 times per set and throughout the full range of movement, as opposed to only once per set and often at the 'sticking point' when doing traditional full range exercise.</div>
This was a major turn off, but there may be some silver lining within the articles...
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From my experiences, I noticed that more contractions are better than fewer contractions, such as 10 contractions vs. 5 contractions in a set that would last 60 seconds, for example.</div>
Okay, so shorter TUT is an objective of Zone Training.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">An example would be the 21-method, whereby 7 repetitions are performed for the first half of the range, followed by 7 repetitions for the other half, and followed by 7 full range repetitions. Of course, this could be called the 15-method if you decide to perform 5-5-5 rather than 7-7-7, but the '21' method has a better 'blackjack' ring to it, and the reader likely realizes how emotionally fixated we can be when it comes to the mystique of numbers and the 'sound' of a name.</div>
Looks like we are getting to the meat and potatoes, but this is an example of a standard rep routine.
I looked all around the website and still don't know what a JRep is... then again, there is a lot of information to skim through.
This was a major turn off, but there may be some silver lining within the articles...
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From my experiences, I noticed that more contractions are better than fewer contractions, such as 10 contractions vs. 5 contractions in a set that would last 60 seconds, for example.</div>
Okay, so shorter TUT is an objective of Zone Training.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">An example would be the 21-method, whereby 7 repetitions are performed for the first half of the range, followed by 7 repetitions for the other half, and followed by 7 full range repetitions. Of course, this could be called the 15-method if you decide to perform 5-5-5 rather than 7-7-7, but the '21' method has a better 'blackjack' ring to it, and the reader likely realizes how emotionally fixated we can be when it comes to the mystique of numbers and the 'sound' of a name.</div>
Looks like we are getting to the meat and potatoes, but this is an example of a standard rep routine.
I looked all around the website and still don't know what a JRep is... then again, there is a lot of information to skim through.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
Well, I was going to cut and paste a paragraph of one of the articles here so we could discuss it, but then I came across this:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> All Information on this site is copyright protected, and is the property of the I.A.R.T. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced in any manner without written permission of the I.A.R.T., unless otherwise indicated.</div>
SO here we are again. "Free" information, as Andrew puts it... yeah right, free.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> All Information on this site is copyright protected, and is the property of the I.A.R.T. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced in any manner without written permission of the I.A.R.T., unless otherwise indicated.</div>
SO here we are again. "Free" information, as Andrew puts it... yeah right, free.
Fausto
HST Expert
Ok, it is pretty simple and we...of all people should be objective...so what is Jreps?
Essentially it is a rep split in either two or three zones meaning that the sticking point of each rep is avoided and the rep willl stop just short of that, it makes a rep a whole lot more challenging to say the least, but....but...is it a new thing? Jules or Vicious touched on similar techniques on his pimp my HST e-book, Mikey wrote the blow reps just for the hell of it, and here we are...bashing each other again!
To me these are techniques to get over sticking points or stall phases within the grand scheme of HST that is all.
The invitation on the zone site seems enticing but...I'm so damn far away anyways
Essentially it is a rep split in either two or three zones meaning that the sticking point of each rep is avoided and the rep willl stop just short of that, it makes a rep a whole lot more challenging to say the least, but....but...is it a new thing? Jules or Vicious touched on similar techniques on his pimp my HST e-book, Mikey wrote the blow reps just for the hell of it, and here we are...bashing each other again!
To me these are techniques to get over sticking points or stall phases within the grand scheme of HST that is all.
The invitation on the zone site seems enticing but...I'm so damn far away anyways
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
Just for the record, I'm not bashing Jreps or Andrew. I'd like to discuss it a little. Too bad we cant. I mean, I can cut and paste a John Berardi article so we can discuss it. I can cut and paste stuff from T-nation, from Dr. Squat, from Deep Squatter, from Crossfit, from Madcow, ... the list goes on and on ... but for some reason, this rep scheme is some untouchable golden goose.
And this is not an attack against Jreps!!! Don't say it is! The history behind Johnston's (online) behavior backs these comments up.
And this is not an attack against Jreps!!! Don't say it is! The history behind Johnston's (online) behavior backs these comments up.
The legal talk was in regards to folks who were passing around a copy of the original book, perhaps even an unfinished version. That is what Johnston was up in arms about I think.
This is a method not a rep scheme or set of rep schemes. It is not a 'do this many times then that and so forth'. Rep counts, principles are all suggestions as starting points – framework as it were.. The main issue is:
- To train in short ROM’s most of the time for more contractions per unit time and to do so with appropriate breaks (if any) between zones.
- To focus on muscle targeting and isolation not just moving limbs and seeing how much you can lift and how many times you can lift it.
The reasoning for each aspect of the method is detailed as is how to go about applying to your personal particulars (body type, equipment, style i.e. to failure/NTF etc). Really it is just a tool somewhat reminiscent of what real bodybuilders of old use to do (pre drug).
I didn’t invent it I was just advertising the contest. I use the method because it works great for me and those I train. I have always been I guess you could say a very ‘hardgainer’ but I detest getting pudgy for size sake. Muscle gains for me slowed and stagnated for years yet in the past 14 months I have built around 20 new pounds of lean mass, so perhaps I just didn’t know what I was doing before ;^)
Regards,
Andrew
This is a method not a rep scheme or set of rep schemes. It is not a 'do this many times then that and so forth'. Rep counts, principles are all suggestions as starting points – framework as it were.. The main issue is:
- To train in short ROM’s most of the time for more contractions per unit time and to do so with appropriate breaks (if any) between zones.
- To focus on muscle targeting and isolation not just moving limbs and seeing how much you can lift and how many times you can lift it.
The reasoning for each aspect of the method is detailed as is how to go about applying to your personal particulars (body type, equipment, style i.e. to failure/NTF etc). Really it is just a tool somewhat reminiscent of what real bodybuilders of old use to do (pre drug).
I didn’t invent it I was just advertising the contest. I use the method because it works great for me and those I train. I have always been I guess you could say a very ‘hardgainer’ but I detest getting pudgy for size sake. Muscle gains for me slowed and stagnated for years yet in the past 14 months I have built around 20 new pounds of lean mass, so perhaps I just didn’t know what I was doing before ;^)
Regards,
Andrew